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I don't mind Jim Zorn
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The King Of All Newsgroup



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:38 pm    Post subject: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

That's because I don't know him. Andy Reid I think was once promoted
from QB coach to Head Coach, too.

The problem in Washington will never be its coach. Or its players.
The problem starts before that.
And the problem I see with Redskin fans is that they enjoy expending
their energy debating the abilities of these underlings when the only
thing that needs to be discussed is the ownership. It is this
franchise's weakest link. It is the hole in the Titanic. It is why I
associate the Washington Redskins more closely with the Detriot Lions
and Arizona Cardinals than any other NFC team.

I guess it's like discussing a '64 Corvette that has no engine. You
can talk about all its parts and why you think its a cooler car than a
'70 Grand Prix but all that doesn't matter if there is no engine. The
car isn't going anywhere.

When next season concludes, this ownership will complete it's 10th
season running the Redskins. From Day 1, when I did my little study in
the background of the principal owner, I made it clear that the
Redskins franchise and its fans would rue the day HE came into power.
The actions seen, heard, commented and reported on, in the first two
years (99 and 2000) substantiated the loudest of fan-critics like
myself.

The rest of the decade's win-loss record speaks for itself. It's not
too difficult to see where I stand on the ownership group.

This hire yesterday, for me, ranks as the most damning decision ever
by this ownership. And that's saying something. Because it's saying
that in almost 10 years, it has learned nothing even though it
publicly said it has learned a lot. It also says (screams) that in 10
years, the same can be suggested as it did in year one: the owner
cares less about winning than being the person responsible and
receiving the admiration when/if it wins. I.E. It's fantasy football
with a real team.

He fires the defensive coach whom the team and fanbase wanted as Head
Coach, displaying how he won't give in to customer pressure.
He promotes his sidekick, advertising their front office is not broke
while visions of Adam Archuletta, Brandon Lloyd, Jeff George, Deion
Sanders, Jeremiah Trotter, Jesse Armstead, and millions of cap space
dance through the mind.
He spends weeks, through the Super Bowl, interviewing.
During that time, he hires assistant coaches, ones apparently
recommended by Jim Fassell.
He apparently can't get the man he wants after he learns of a MAJOR
backlash from the fanbase, so he gives in to customer pressure and
promotes the guy he had no intention of hiring as Head Coach after 2
weeks on the job.

If somebody can prove the QB Coach Jim Zorn is more qualified to be
this team's head coach right now than Greg Williams, you're gonna have
to take it offline and mail me your thesis on the subject. A post in
here will not do it.

And the Redskins franchise, its fans, even its players are left back
at square one, once again. Trying to compensate, and win DESPITE
(remember this line, it was used so cutely recently in this NG
describing a team's Super Bowl run this year) their weakest link.

That weak link proved to you that has no interest in considering other
ideas on how to run a football team. He has proved to you that he
thinks what he is doing is best for the team.

I think otherwise. Either Snyder removes himself, gets physically
removed, or they continue to sink.

And let me make this clear now: if somehow the Redskins were to have
some success in the future here with Jim Zorn, I'll tell you now and
then that the opinion of the ownership will NOT change. It would be
done despite the ownership.

Like I said, I don't mind Jim Zorn. He's not the one to blame.

Archived from group: alt>sports>football>pro>wash-redskins
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Hoover



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

I LOVE this hiring - I'm a Giants' fan. The only thing better would have
been to hire Fassel.

"The King Of All Newsgroups" wrote in
message @u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> That's because I don't know him. Andy Reid I think was once promoted
> from QB coach to Head Coach, too.
>
> The problem in Washington will never be its coach. Or its players.
> The problem starts before that.
> And the problem I see with Redskin fans is that they enjoy expending
> their energy debating the abilities of these underlings when the only
> thing that needs to be discussed is the ownership. It is this
> franchise's weakest link. It is the hole in the Titanic. It is why I
> associate the Washington Redskins more closely with the Detriot Lions
> and Arizona Cardinals than any other NFC team.
>
> I guess it's like discussing a '64 Corvette that has no engine. You
> can talk about all its parts and why you think its a cooler car than a
> '70 Grand Prix but all that doesn't matter if there is no engine. The
> car isn't going anywhere.
>
> When next season concludes, this ownership will complete it's 10th
> season running the Redskins. From Day 1, when I did my little study in
> the background of the principal owner, I made it clear that the
> Redskins franchise and its fans would rue the day HE came into power.
> The actions seen, heard, commented and reported on, in the first two
> years (99 and 2000) substantiated the loudest of fan-critics like
> myself.
>
> The rest of the decade's win-loss record speaks for itself. It's not
> too difficult to see where I stand on the ownership group.
>
> This hire yesterday, for me, ranks as the most damning decision ever
> by this ownership. And that's saying something. Because it's saying
> that in almost 10 years, it has learned nothing even though it
> publicly said it has learned a lot. It also says (screams) that in 10
> years, the same can be suggested as it did in year one: the owner
> cares less about winning than being the person responsible and
> receiving the admiration when/if it wins. I.E. It's fantasy football
> with a real team.
>
> He fires the defensive coach whom the team and fanbase wanted as Head
> Coach, displaying how he won't give in to customer pressure.
> He promotes his sidekick, advertising their front office is not broke
> while visions of Adam Archuletta, Brandon Lloyd, Jeff George, Deion
> Sanders, Jeremiah Trotter, Jesse Armstead, and millions of cap space
> dance through the mind.
> He spends weeks, through the Super Bowl, interviewing.
> During that time, he hires assistant coaches, ones apparently
> recommended by Jim Fassell.
> He apparently can't get the man he wants after he learns of a MAJOR
> backlash from the fanbase, so he gives in to customer pressure and
> promotes the guy he had no intention of hiring as Head Coach after 2
> weeks on the job.
>
> If somebody can prove the QB Coach Jim Zorn is more qualified to be
> this team's head coach right now than Greg Williams, you're gonna have
> to take it offline and mail me your thesis on the subject. A post in
> here will not do it.
>
> And the Redskins franchise, its fans, even its players are left back
> at square one, once again. Trying to compensate, and win DESPITE
> (remember this line, it was used so cutely recently in this NG
> describing a team's Super Bowl run this year) their weakest link.
>
> That weak link proved to you that has no interest in considering other
> ideas on how to run a football team. He has proved to you that he
> thinks what he is doing is best for the team.
>
> I think otherwise. Either Snyder removes himself, gets physically
> removed, or they continue to sink.
>
> And let me make this clear now: if somehow the Redskins were to have
> some success in the future here with Jim Zorn, I'll tell you now and
> then that the opinion of the ownership will NOT change. It would be
> done despite the ownership.
>
> Like I said, I don't mind Jim Zorn. He's not the one to blame.
>
>
>
>
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grimer



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

"Jim Carr" wrote in message $Wt7.32277@newsfe14.phx...
> The King Of All Newsgroups wrote:
>
>> The rest of the decade's win-loss record speaks for itself. It's not
>> too difficult to see where I stand on the ownership group.
>
> It's slightly better than that of Dallas over the same time period. How do
> you then judge Jones?
>

This is the second time I have seen you use this comparison and I simply
don't understand it. I think most people would agree that Jerry Jones has
many flaws as an owner. Also, being slightly better than the cowboys over
the last 8 years only means that you were mediocre at best. So unless your
goal is for Snyder to be slightly better than the other meddlesome owners in
the NFL then I would change measuring sticks.
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ldnayman



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

On Feb 10, 7:39 pm, "grimer" wrote:
\ So unless your
> goal is for Snyder to be slightly better than the other meddlesome owners in
> the NFL then I would change measuring sticks.

Kulp disease. Carr, who is just like Kulp, keeps bringing things into
it that simply don't matter.

So Jerry (3 super bowl rings) Jones is worse than Snyder? So Bill
Bidwell is worse than Snyder?

Who cares? Even if true, it doesn't make Snyder a good owner.
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DOUGLASS



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

You love it till we beat you twice next year
"Hoover" wrote in message $Ft5.24533@newsfe15.lga...
>I LOVE this hiring - I'm a Giants' fan. The only thing better would have
>been to hire Fassel.
>
> "The King Of All Newsgroups" wrote in
> message
> @u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>> That's because I don't know him. Andy Reid I think was once promoted
>> from QB coach to Head Coach, too.
>>
>> The problem in Washington will never be its coach. Or its players.
>> The problem starts before that.
>> And the problem I see with Redskin fans is that they enjoy expending
>> their energy debating the abilities of these underlings when the only
>> thing that needs to be discussed is the ownership. It is this
>> franchise's weakest link. It is the hole in the Titanic. It is why I
>> associate the Washington Redskins more closely with the Detriot Lions
>> and Arizona Cardinals than any other NFC team.
>>
>> I guess it's like discussing a '64 Corvette that has no engine. You
>> can talk about all its parts and why you think its a cooler car than a
>> '70 Grand Prix but all that doesn't matter if there is no engine. The
>> car isn't going anywhere.
>>
>> When next season concludes, this ownership will complete it's 10th
>> season running the Redskins. From Day 1, when I did my little study in
>> the background of the principal owner, I made it clear that the
>> Redskins franchise and its fans would rue the day HE came into power.
>> The actions seen, heard, commented and reported on, in the first two
>> years (99 and 2000) substantiated the loudest of fan-critics like
>> myself.
>>
>> The rest of the decade's win-loss record speaks for itself. It's not
>> too difficult to see where I stand on the ownership group.
>>
>> This hire yesterday, for me, ranks as the most damning decision ever
>> by this ownership. And that's saying something. Because it's saying
>> that in almost 10 years, it has learned nothing even though it
>> publicly said it has learned a lot. It also says (screams) that in 10
>> years, the same can be suggested as it did in year one: the owner
>> cares less about winning than being the person responsible and
>> receiving the admiration when/if it wins. I.E. It's fantasy football
>> with a real team.
>>
>> He fires the defensive coach whom the team and fanbase wanted as Head
>> Coach, displaying how he won't give in to customer pressure.
>> He promotes his sidekick, advertising their front office is not broke
>> while visions of Adam Archuletta, Brandon Lloyd, Jeff George, Deion
>> Sanders, Jeremiah Trotter, Jesse Armstead, and millions of cap space
>> dance through the mind.
>> He spends weeks, through the Super Bowl, interviewing.
>> During that time, he hires assistant coaches, ones apparently
>> recommended by Jim Fassell.
>> He apparently can't get the man he wants after he learns of a MAJOR
>> backlash from the fanbase, so he gives in to customer pressure and
>> promotes the guy he had no intention of hiring as Head Coach after 2
>> weeks on the job.
>>
>> If somebody can prove the QB Coach Jim Zorn is more qualified to be
>> this team's head coach right now than Greg Williams, you're gonna have
>> to take it offline and mail me your thesis on the subject. A post in
>> here will not do it.
>>
>> And the Redskins franchise, its fans, even its players are left back
>> at square one, once again. Trying to compensate, and win DESPITE
>> (remember this line, it was used so cutely recently in this NG
>> describing a team's Super Bowl run this year) their weakest link.
>>
>> That weak link proved to you that has no interest in considering other
>> ideas on how to run a football team. He has proved to you that he
>> thinks what he is doing is best for the team.
>>
>> I think otherwise. Either Snyder removes himself, gets physically
>> removed, or they continue to sink.
>>
>> And let me make this clear now: if somehow the Redskins were to have
>> some success in the future here with Jim Zorn, I'll tell you now and
>> then that the opinion of the ownership will NOT change. It would be
>> done despite the ownership.
>>
>> Like I said, I don't mind Jim Zorn. He's not the one to blame.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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DOUGLASS



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

"The King Of All Newsgroups" wrote in
message @u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> That's because I don't know him. Andy Reid I think was once promoted
> from QB coach to Head Coach, too.
>
> The problem in Washington will never be its coach. Or its players.
> The problem starts before that.
> And the problem I see with Redskin fans is that they enjoy expending
> their energy debating the abilities of these underlings when the only
> thing that needs to be discussed is the ownership. It is this
> franchise's weakest link. It is the hole in the Titanic. It is why I
> associate the Washington Redskins more closely with the Detriot Lions
> and Arizona Cardinals than any other NFC team.
>
> I guess it's like discussing a '64 Corvette that has no engine. You
> can talk about all its parts and why you think its a cooler car than a
> '70 Grand Prix but all that doesn't matter if there is no engine. The
> car isn't going anywhere.
>
> When next season concludes, this ownership will complete it's 10th
> season running the Redskins. From Day 1, when I did my little study in
> the background of the principal owner, I made it clear that the
> Redskins franchise and its fans would rue the day HE came into power.
> The actions seen, heard, commented and reported on, in the first two
> years (99 and 2000) substantiated the loudest of fan-critics like
> myself.
>
> The rest of the decade's win-loss record speaks for itself. It's not
> too difficult to see where I stand on the ownership group.
>
> This hire yesterday, for me, ranks as the most damning decision ever
> by this ownership. And that's saying something. Because it's saying
> that in almost 10 years, it has learned nothing even though it
> publicly said it has learned a lot. It also says (screams) that in 10
> years, the same can be suggested as it did in year one: the owner
> cares less about winning than being the person responsible and
> receiving the admiration when/if it wins. I.E. It's fantasy football
> with a real team.
>
> He fires the defensive coach whom the team and fanbase wanted as Head
> Coach, displaying how he won't give in to customer pressure.
> He promotes his sidekick, advertising their front office is not broke
> while visions of Adam Archuletta, Brandon Lloyd, Jeff George, Deion
> Sanders, Jeremiah Trotter, Jesse Armstead, and millions of cap space
> dance through the mind.
> He spends weeks, through the Super Bowl, interviewing.
> During that time, he hires assistant coaches, ones apparently
> recommended by Jim Fassell.
> He apparently can't get the man he wants after he learns of a MAJOR
> backlash from the fanbase, so he gives in to customer pressure and
> promotes the guy he had no intention of hiring as Head Coach after 2
> weeks on the job.
>
> If somebody can prove the QB Coach Jim Zorn is more qualified to be
> this team's head coach right now than Greg Williams, you're gonna have
> to take it offline and mail me your thesis on the subject. A post in
> here will not do it.
>
> And the Redskins franchise, its fans, even its players are left back
> at square one, once again. Trying to compensate, and win DESPITE
> (remember this line, it was used so cutely recently in this NG
> describing a team's Super Bowl run this year) their weakest link.
>
> That weak link proved to you that has no interest in considering other
> ideas on how to run a football team. He has proved to you that he
> thinks what he is doing is best for the team.
>
> I think otherwise. Either Snyder removes himself, gets physically
> removed, or they continue to sink.
>
> And let me make this clear now: if somehow the Redskins were to have
> some success in the future here with Jim Zorn, I'll tell you now and
> then that the opinion of the ownership will NOT change. It would be
> done despite the ownership.
>
> Like I said, I don't mind Jim Zorn. He's not the one to blame.
>
>

I dont think he backed himself into anything you want to blame him fro
things befoire gibbs go ahead letting AP go and Smoot is all on Williams.
Bringing in Archelta is all on williams

Brandon LLoyd is all on Saunders

And if you listen to Gibbs when Snyder told Gibbs 2 weeks ago that he was
gonna hire him as head coach Gibbs told him to seek the process ouit till he
interviewd everyone he wanted. Same thing with Roger Goodall.

yet you are believeing the media reports that snyder threw a contract at
every coach that came in to interview.





>
>
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Jim Carr



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:30 am    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

grimer wrote:
> "Jim Carr" wrote in message
> $Wt7.32277@newsfe14.phx...
>> The King Of All Newsgroups wrote:
>>
>>> The rest of the decade's win-loss record speaks for itself. It's not
>>> too difficult to see where I stand on the ownership group.
>> It's slightly better than that of Dallas over the same time period. How do
>> you then judge Jones?
>>
>
> This is the second time I have seen you use this comparison and I simply
> don't understand it. I think most people would agree that Jerry Jones has
> many flaws as an owner. Also, being slightly better than the cowboys over
> the last 8 years only means that you were mediocre at best. So unless your
> goal is for Snyder to be slightly better than the other meddlesome owners in
> the NFL then I would change measuring sticks.

Sure, Jones has flaws as an owner. More than Snyder, I'd say, mainly
because Jones is a press hound while Snyder tries to keep a low profile.
But Jones has won Super Bowls, which to me indicates that it can happen
with Snyder, too. As I've said before, the only thing I really don't
want is a cheap owner.

But the point is that Snyder is not a total wreck of an owner like Spizz
and others keep claiming. The ultimate judge is the scoreboard. If
Snyder is a disaster, then there are probably a dozen other owners who
should be ahead of him on death row.

All I ever say is that he is not a wreck of an owner or the demise of
the franchise, yet everyone seems to disagree with me. If you think he's
mediocre, then come out and say it.



--
Write a wise saying and your name will live forever.
- Anonymous
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Jim Carr



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

ldnayman wrote:

> Who cares? Even if true, it doesn't make Snyder a good owner.

1) Who said he was a good owner?

2) With what yardstick are you measuring owners? If it's the scoreboard,
the Redskins could do a *lot* worse.


--
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- Anonymous
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RichL



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

Jim Carr wrote:
> grimer wrote:
>> "Jim Carr" wrote in message
>> $Wt7.32277@newsfe14.phx...
>>> The King Of All Newsgroups wrote:
>>>
>>>> The rest of the decade's win-loss record speaks for itself. It's
>>>> not too difficult to see where I stand on the ownership group.
>>> It's slightly better than that of Dallas over the same time period.
>>> How do you then judge Jones?
>>>
>>
>> This is the second time I have seen you use this comparison and I
>> simply don't understand it. I think most people would agree that
>> Jerry Jones has many flaws as an owner. Also, being slightly better
>> than the cowboys over the last 8 years only means that you were
>> mediocre at best. So unless your goal is for Snyder to be slightly
>> better than the other meddlesome owners in the NFL then I would
>> change measuring sticks.
>
> Sure, Jones has flaws as an owner. More than Snyder, I'd say, mainly
> because Jones is a press hound while Snyder tries to keep a low
> profile. But Jones has won Super Bowls, which to me indicates that it
> can happen with Snyder, too. As I've said before, the only thing I
> really don't want is a cheap owner.
>
> But the point is that Snyder is not a total wreck of an owner like
> Spizz and others keep claiming. The ultimate judge is the scoreboard.
> If Snyder is a disaster, then there are probably a dozen other owners
> who should be ahead of him on death row.
>
> All I ever say is that he is not a wreck of an owner or the demise of
> the franchise, yet everyone seems to disagree with me. If you think
> he's mediocre, then come out and say it.

I'd honestly say he's not among the worst but not among the best,
either.
Jones's advantage over Snyder is that he is more knowledgeable,
football-wise. He *has* taken the Cowboys to Super Bowls, conference
championships, etc. Snyder, to date, has not. That in and of itself
puts Jones in the upper echelon. I think Snyder's record puts him in
the middle of the pack. So yeah, he's not Bidwell. But as a fan, I'm
not content with "he's not Bidwell". I expect better. He meets that
minimal expectation but does not exceed it.
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knightowlgraphics



Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:54 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

On Feb 10, 9:39 pm, "RichL" wrote:
> Jim Carr wrote:
> > grimer wrote:
> >> "Jim Carr" wrote in message
> >>$Wt7.32277@newsfe14.phx...
> >>> The King Of All Newsgroups wrote:
>
> >>>> The rest of the decade's win-loss record speaks for itself.  It's
> >>>> not too difficult to see where I stand on the ownership group.
> >>> It's slightly better than that of Dallas over the same time period.
> >>> How do you then judge Jones?
>
> >> This is the second time I have seen you use this comparison and I
> >> simply don't understand it. I think most people would agree that
> >> Jerry Jones has many flaws as an owner. Also, being slightly better
> >> than the cowboys over the last 8 years only means that you were
> >> mediocre at best. So unless your goal is for Snyder to be slightly
> >> better than the other meddlesome owners in the NFL then I would
> >> change measuring sticks.
>
> > Sure, Jones has flaws as an owner. More than Snyder, I'd say, mainly
> > because Jones is a press hound while Snyder tries to keep a low
> > profile. But Jones has won Super Bowls, which to me indicates that it
> > can happen with Snyder, too. As I've said before, the only thing I
> > really don't want is a cheap owner.
>
> > But the point is that Snyder is not a total wreck of an owner like
> > Spizz and others keep claiming. The ultimate judge is the scoreboard.
> > If Snyder is a disaster, then there are probably a dozen other owners
> > who should be ahead of him on death row.
>
> > All I ever say is that he is not a wreck of an owner or the demise of
> > the franchise, yet everyone seems to disagree with me. If you think
> > he's mediocre, then come out and say it.
>
> I'd honestly say he's not among the worst but not among the best,
> either.
> Jones's advantage over Snyder is that he is more knowledgeable,
> football-wise.  He *has* taken the Cowboys to Super Bowls, conference
> championships, etc.  Snyder, to date, has not.  That in and of itself
> puts Jones in the upper echelon.  I think Snyder's record puts him in
> the middle of the pack.  So yeah, he's not Bidwell.  But as a fan, I'm
> not content with "he's not Bidwell".  I expect better.  He meets that
> minimal expectation but does not exceed it.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What Jones DID do right was hire Jimmie Johnson as coach and head of
personnel. Johnson had WAY more to do with the SB wins than Jones
could ever dream. Once Jones forced Johnson out the Cowboys have been
in the same shitter as the Skins. So "He *has* taken the Cowboys to
Super Bowls, conference championships, etc." puts Johnson in the upper
echelon much more than it does Jones.
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Airyx



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

On Feb 10, 9:38 am, The King Of All Newsgroups
wrote:
> That's because I don't know him.  Andy Reid I think was once promoted
> from QB coach to Head Coach, too.

I'm posted this in other threads.

Reid, Mariucci, Gruden, and Mornenwheg, were all promoted directly
from being Holmgren's QB coach to a HC.
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Jim Carr



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 111

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

RichL wrote:

> All of which goes to my point that we're in the middle of the pack.

Um...that was *my* point. Snyder has not killed this franchise nor is he
the demise. It's good to hear you say that his results are mediocre.

Now, what *specifically* has he done to keep them stuck at mediocre? If
you were to assign "blame" percentages to coaches, players, ownership
and luck, what would they be and why?

--
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RichL



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

Jim Carr wrote:
> RichL wrote:
>
>> All of which goes to my point that we're in the middle of the pack.
>
> Um...that was *my* point. Snyder has not killed this franchise nor is
> he the demise. It's good to hear you say that his results are
> mediocre.
>
> Now, what *specifically* has he done to keep them stuck at mediocre?
> If you were to assign "blame" percentages to coaches, players,
> ownership and luck, what would they be and why?

Jim, no owner attempts to keep his team stuck at mediocre. Not even
Bidwell. But since Snyder bought the team, our *best* regular-season
record has been 10-6 (twice), and our worst has been 5-11 (also twice).
The team has basically been stuck in this mediocre range, despite four
head coaching changes and numerous high-profile free-agent acquisitions.

There has been *one* constant throughout this period: Snyder.

One thing that I believe can be laid directly on Snyder's doorstep is an
over-reliance on free agents, at the expense of draft picks. Another is
the high turnover in the coaching staff. He fired Turner when he was
7-6; he fired Schottenheimer after *one* 8-8 season. And even during
Gibbs' tenure, he upset the applecart by bringing in Saunders. Now I
realize you don't put much stock in continuity, but I believe if you
look at the consistently high-performing teams you'll find that
continuity is a common theme among them.

I won't play the blame game, for one simple reason: if a series of
underlings constantly screw up under the management of a single
individual, who's likely to blame? Yes, it's possible that a string of
bad luck is responsible, but this becomes statistically less likely if
it happens time after time. Is it all Snyder's fault? Of course not.
I won't go that far.

But Jim, good intentions are not enough. My own opinion is that Snyder
made too many decisions that seem to be based on an expectation of
immediate success and overlooked the long-term health of the team. Here
are the results of the last 5 drafts, with the number of players chosen
listed along with the number still on the roster (in parentheses):

2007: 5 (2)
2006: 6 (4)
2005: 6 (2)
2004: 4 (2)
2003: 3 (0)

That's an average of 4.8 players drafted per year (7 being roughly the
league average). And 10 players still on the roster to show for it.
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DOUGLASS



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

"RichL" wrote in message $gg1.352@trnddc01...
> Jim Carr wrote:
>> RichL wrote:
>>
>>> All of which goes to my point that we're in the middle of the pack.
>>
>> Um...that was *my* point. Snyder has not killed this franchise nor is
>> he the demise. It's good to hear you say that his results are
>> mediocre.
>>
>> Now, what *specifically* has he done to keep them stuck at mediocre?
>> If you were to assign "blame" percentages to coaches, players,
>> ownership and luck, what would they be and why?
>
> Jim, no owner attempts to keep his team stuck at mediocre. Not even
> Bidwell. But since Snyder bought the team, our *best* regular-season
> record has been 10-6 (twice), and our worst has been 5-11 (also twice).
> The team has basically been stuck in this mediocre range, despite four
> head coaching changes and numerous high-profile free-agent acquisitions.
>
> There has been *one* constant throughout this period: Snyder.
>
> One thing that I believe can be laid directly on Snyder's doorstep is an
> over-reliance on free agents, at the expense of draft picks. Another is
> the high turnover in the coaching staff. He fired Turner when he was
> 7-6; he fired Schottenheimer after *one* 8-8 season. And even during
> Gibbs' tenure, he upset the applecart by bringing in Saunders. Now I
> realize you don't put much stock in continuity, but I believe if you
> look at the consistently high-performing teams you'll find that
> continuity is a common theme among them.
>
> I won't play the blame game, for one simple reason: if a series of
> underlings constantly screw up under the management of a single
> individual, who's likely to blame? Yes, it's possible that a string of
> bad luck is responsible, but this becomes statistically less likely if
> it happens time after time. Is it all Snyder's fault? Of course not.
> I won't go that far.
>
> But Jim, good intentions are not enough. My own opinion is that Snyder
> made too many decisions that seem to be based on an expectation of
> immediate success and overlooked the long-term health of the team. Here
> are the results of the last 5 drafts, with the number of players chosen
> listed along with the number still on the roster (in parentheses):
>
> 2007: 5 (2)
> 2006: 6 (4)
> 2005: 6 (2)
> 2004: 4 (2)
> 2003: 3 (0)
>
> That's an average of 4.8 players drafted per year (7 being roughly the
> league average). And 10 players still on the roster to show for it.
>
>

what is the league average for players still on the team though? I bet its
roughly the same.

The only problem i have with Snyder is the way we sign free agents I wish
we could get a system and stay under the cap Hopefully that starts this
year.

Snyder listens to his coaches wich that might be his problem Saunders is
defiantly on Gibbs. I think Vinny will have a more say in personell now and
snyder will take more not much though of a back seat.

Our 2 draft picks in 2000 the 2 and 3 he wanted to trade them and Vinny who
everyone callls the Yes man talked him out it.
Vinny has been able to talk snyder out of some crazy and stupid deals but
snyder also listens to his coaches he basically gets what his coaches want

I dont Fault him for getting what his coaches want.
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Walter Bushell



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: I don't mind Jim Zorn Reply with quote

In article , "RichL"
wrote:

> Jim Carr wrote:
> > RichL wrote:
> >
> >> All of which goes to my point that we're in the middle of the pack.
> >
> > Um...that was *my* point. Snyder has not killed this franchise nor is
> > he the demise. It's good to hear you say that his results are
> > mediocre.
> >
> > Now, what *specifically* has he done to keep them stuck at mediocre?
> > If you were to assign "blame" percentages to coaches, players,
> > ownership and luck, what would they be and why?
>
> Jim, no owner attempts to keep his team stuck at mediocre. Not even
> Bidwell. But since Snyder bought the team, our *best* regular-season
> record has been 10-6 (twice), and our worst has been 5-11 (also twice).
> The team has basically been stuck in this mediocre range, despite four
> head coaching changes and numerous high-profile free-agent acquisitions.
>
> There has been *one* constant throughout this period: Snyder.
>
> One thing that I believe can be laid directly on Snyder's doorstep is an
> over-reliance on free agents, at the expense of draft picks. Another is
> the high turnover in the coaching staff. He fired Turner when he was
> 7-6; he fired Schottenheimer after *one* 8-8 season. And even during
> Gibbs' tenure, he upset the applecart by bringing in Saunders. Now I
> realize you don't put much stock in continuity, but I believe if you
> look at the consistently high-performing teams you'll find that
> continuity is a common theme among them.
>
> I won't play the blame game, for one simple reason: if a series of
> underlings constantly screw up under the management of a single
> individual, who's likely to blame? Yes, it's possible that a string of
> bad luck is responsible, but this becomes statistically less likely if
> it happens time after time. Is it all Snyder's fault? Of course not.
> I won't go that far.
>
> But Jim, good intentions are not enough. My own opinion is that Snyder
> made too many decisions that seem to be based on an expectation of
> immediate success and overlooked the long-term health of the team. Here
> are the results of the last 5 drafts, with the number of players chosen
> listed along with the number still on the roster (in parentheses):
>
> 2007: 5 (2)
> 2006: 6 (4)
> 2005: 6 (2)
> 2004: 4 (2)
> 2003: 3 (0)
>
> That's an average of 4.8 players drafted per year (7 being roughly the
> league average). And 10 players still on the roster to show for it.

Losing Taylor was just bad luck, so give him another player that should
be on the roster.

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