Impressive combine showings.

RUUUUDY · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 9

Darren McFadden ran an unofficial 4.27 in the 40 yard dash (later it
was officially made a 4.33). To put this in perspective, Adrian
Peterson ran a 4.4 last season, Marshawn Lynch the second runner
taken, ran a 4.52. Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day a few years
back.

McFadden looked FAST, and powerful. Hopefully Jerry Jones was
watching.

Vernon Gholstan led all DE/LB with 37 reps at 225. Gholstan is
expected to run, jump and move exceptionally well on Monday when DE/LB
work out.

Hopefully a team will will fall in love with one of these prospects,
and the Phins can move out of the number one spot.

If anyone is interested top prospects Sedrick Ellis, Chris Long and
Vernon Gholston will work out live on NFL network at 11:00am on
Monday.

Archived from group: alt>sports>football>pro>miami-dolphins

euphemism · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 25

RUUUUDY wrote:
> Darren McFadden ran an unofficial 4.27 in the 40 yard dash (later it
> was officially made a 4.33). To put this in perspective, Adrian
> Peterson ran a 4.4 last season, Marshawn Lynch the second runner
> taken, ran a 4.52. Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day a few years
> back.
>
> McFadden looked FAST, and powerful. Hopefully Jerry Jones was
> watching.
>
> Vernon Gholstan led all DE/LB with 37 reps at 225. Gholstan is
> expected to run, jump and move exceptionally well on Monday when DE/LB
> work out.
>
> Hopefully a team will will fall in love with one of these prospects,
> and the Phins can move out of the number one spot.
>
> If anyone is interested top prospects Sedrick Ellis, Chris Long and
> Vernon Gholston will work out live on NFL network at 11:00am on
> Monday.
>

The suspense is killing me... our team having the #1 pick is kind of a
pain. It seems like it's going to be damn difficult to make a good move.

Ü

Spiff · Joined: 16 Nov 2007 Posts: 14

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:51:15 -0800 (PST), RUUUUDY
wrote:

>Darren McFadden ran an unofficial 4.27 in the 40 yard dash (later it
>was officially made a 4.33). To put this in perspective, Adrian
>Peterson ran a 4.4 last season, Marshawn Lynch the second runner
>taken, ran a 4.52. Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day a few years
>back.
>
>McFadden looked FAST, and powerful. Hopefully Jerry Jones was
>watching.
>
>Vernon Gholstan led all DE/LB with 37 reps at 225. Gholstan is
>expected to run, jump and move exceptionally well on Monday when DE/LB
>work out.
>
>Hopefully a team will will fall in love with one of these prospects,
>and the Phins can move out of the number one spot.
>
>If anyone is interested top prospects Sedrick Ellis, Chris Long and
>Vernon Gholston will work out live on NFL network at 11:00am on
>Monday.

I highly doubt the Fins are going to be able to trade out and get much
value. Everyone knows the Fins want to trade down and we have lots of
holes. Everyone team and their mascots know this, further decreasing
the chance of the Fins pulling this off and not get proper
compensation.
Factor in how the rookie signing bonus's have escalated in past
years, and the Fins are further hamstrung... 8(

Regardless, I have more faith in Parcells and Company then I have with
any of the front office guys Miami has had lately..

Spiff

tom · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

On Feb 24, 11:52 pm, Spiff wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:51:15 -0800 (PST), RUUUUDY
>
>
>
> wrote:
> >Darren McFadden ran an unofficial 4.27 in the 40 yard dash (later it
> >was officially made a 4.33). To put this in perspective, Adrian
> >Peterson ran a 4.4 last season, Marshawn Lynch the second runner
> >taken, ran a 4.52. Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day a few years
> >back.
>
> >McFadden looked FAST, and powerful. Hopefully Jerry Jones was
> >watching.
>
> >Vernon Gholstan led all DE/LB with 37 reps at 225. Gholstan is
> >expected to run, jump and move exceptionally well on Monday when DE/LB
> >work out.
>
> >Hopefully a team will will fall in love with one of these prospects,
> >and the Phins can move out of the number one spot.
>
> >If anyone is interested top prospects Sedrick Ellis, Chris Long and
> >Vernon Gholston will work out live on NFL network at 11:00am on
> >Monday.
>
> I highly doubt the Fins are going to be able to trade out and get much
> value. Everyone knows the Fins want to trade down and we have lots of
> holes. Everyone team and their mascots know this, further decreasing
> the chance of the Fins pulling this off and not get proper
> compensation.
> Factor in how the rookie signing bonus's have escalated in past
> years, and the Fins are further hamstrung... 8(
>
> Regardless, I have more faith in Parcells and Company then I have with
> any of the front office guys Miami has had lately..
>
> Spiff

It's a great idea on paper to trade down, it's just that we have this
minor problem that stands above everything else. We have no QB. And
Matt Ryan, whether he is worth the first pick or not, is a step up by
all accounts I've read from Beck. I can't imagine us with the number
one pick not taking him, and yet I can't imagine using the first pick
on someone who everyone says is no traditional number one pick QB.
Quite a problem.
TH

Fred Fredburger · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

tom@aerovons.com wrote:

> It's a great idea on paper to trade down, it's just that we have this
> minor problem that stands above everything else. We have no QB. And
> Matt Ryan, whether he is worth the first pick or not, is a step up by
> all accounts I've read from Beck. I can't imagine us with the number
> one pick not taking him, and yet I can't imagine using the first pick
> on someone who everyone says is no traditional number one pick QB.
> Quite a problem.

I don't think this has much to do with Miami's needs. All teams with the
number 1 pick have LOTS of needs. Goes with the territory.

What makes a difference is that there is no consensus #1 pick. Or #2. Or
#3. I've heard of 6 different players projected as the number one pick.
When there's that little differentiating between the top guys, who's
going to pay through the nose for one of them?

Bobby M · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 13

On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:51:15 -0800 (PST), RUUUUDY
wrote:

>Darren McFadden ran an unofficial 4.27 in the 40 yard dash (later it
>was officially made a 4.33). To put this in perspective, Adrian
>Peterson ran a 4.4 last season, Marshawn Lynch the second runner
>taken, ran a 4.52. Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day a few years
>back.
>
>McFadden looked FAST, and powerful. Hopefully Jerry Jones was
>watching.
>
>Vernon Gholstan led all DE/LB with 37 reps at 225. Gholstan is
>expected to run, jump and move exceptionally well on Monday when DE/LB
>work out.
>
>Hopefully a team will will fall in love with one of these prospects,
>and the Phins can move out of the number one spot.

The better McFadden looks, the better for us. He's the only player I
see a team trading up for in the Top 5. Last year's success of Adrian
Peterson can only help too. FWIW I think McFadden is the real deal. My
wife's family are big Arkansas fans and I've seen him play a lot. He
runs over people, bounces off and then around them, he can catch and
even throw the football pretty darn good. I had no idea, however, that
he had 4.33 speed.

So here's hoping some team (maybe Dallas) decides they just have to
have McFadden and they pony up a great deal for the #1 overall pick.

Bobby M
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Chris · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

On Feb 24, 11:52 pm, Spiff wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:51:15 -0800 (PST), RUUUUDY
>
>
>
>
>
> wrote:
> >Darren McFadden ran an unofficial 4.27 in the 40 yard dash (later it
> >was officially made a 4.33). To put this in perspective, Adrian
> >Peterson ran a 4.4 last season, Marshawn Lynch the second runner
> >taken, ran a 4.52. Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day a few years
> >back.
>
> >McFadden looked FAST, and powerful. Hopefully Jerry Jones was
> >watching.
>
> >Vernon Gholstan led all DE/LB with 37 reps at 225. Gholstan is
> >expected to run, jump and move exceptionally well on Monday when DE/LB
> >work out.
>
> >Hopefully a team will will fall in love with one of these prospects,
> >and the Phins can move out of the number one spot.
>
> >If anyone is interested top prospects Sedrick Ellis, Chris Long and
> >Vernon Gholston will work out live on NFL network at 11:00am on
> >Monday.
>
> I highly doubt the Fins are going to be able to trade out and get much
> value. Everyone knows the Fins want to trade down and we have lots of
> holes. Everyone team and their mascots know this, further decreasing
> the chance of the Fins pulling this off and not get proper
> compensation.

If anything, I think everyone knowing the Phins want to trade out
increases the odds of getting someting good. With more possible trade
partners, the bidding price will go up: Not because of what the Phins
are asking for, but teams want their offer to be most attractive.

Let's wait till the end of the combine and see who's stock has
skyrocketed and then who wants that particular player.

Chris · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

On Feb 25, 1:52 am, t...@aerovons.com wrote:
> On Feb 24, 11:52 pm, Spiff wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:51:15 -0800 (PST), RUUUUDY
>
> > wrote:
> > >Darren McFadden ran an unofficial 4.27 in the 40 yard dash (later it
> > >was officially made a 4.33). To put this in perspective, Adrian
> > >Peterson ran a 4.4 last season, Marshawn Lynch the second runner
> > >taken, ran a 4.52. Reggie Bush ran a 4.33 at his pro day a few years
> > >back.
>
> > >McFadden looked FAST, and powerful. Hopefully Jerry Jones was
> > >watching.
>
> > >Vernon Gholstan led all DE/LB with 37 reps at 225. Gholstan is
> > >expected to run, jump and move exceptionally well on Monday when DE/LB
> > >work out.
>
> > >Hopefully a team will will fall in love with one of these prospects,
> > >and the Phins can move out of the number one spot.
>
> > >If anyone is interested top prospects Sedrick Ellis, Chris Long and
> > >Vernon Gholston will work out live on NFL network at 11:00am on
> > >Monday.
>
> > I highly doubt the Fins are going to be able to trade out and get much
> > value. Everyone knows the Fins want to trade down and we have lots of
> > holes. Everyone team and their mascots know this, further decreasing
> > the chance of the Fins pulling this off and not get proper
> > compensation.
> > Factor in how the rookie signing bonus's have escalated in past
> > years, and the Fins are further hamstrung... 8(
>
> > Regardless, I have more faith in Parcells and Company then I have with
> > any of the front office guys Miami has had lately..
>
> > Spiff
>
> It's a great idea on paper to trade down, it's just that we have this
> minor problem that stands above everything else. We have no QB. And
> Matt Ryan, whether he is worth the first pick or not, is a step up by
> all accounts I've read from Beck. I can't imagine us with the number
> one pick not taking him...

I hope Atlanta believes that... THis way they give up the farm for him
and the Phins only drop 2 spots to #3.

Razor · Joined: 01 Jan 2008 Posts: 6

>Let's wait till the end of the combine and see who's stock has
>skyrocketed and then who wants that particular player.

It's more than just finding out who wants a particular player and how bad.
Part of the equation is convincing any potential trade partners that we want
a particular player and intend to draft him. No one is going to trade with
us if they believe a particular player will fall to them or that they can
trade to the #2 or #3 spot and still get the guy they want.

My guess is that the guy everyone expects Miami to take at #1 on draft day
will NOT be the guy they actually take. I think they will have a player they
are really interested in, but will be very low-key about it. Likewise, they
will have a player that they are talking up, visiting, showing a lot of
interest in, etc. That'll be the decoy. That'll be the guy that all of the
draftniks will project going to Miami.

tgowan · Joined: 07 Feb 2008 Posts: 8

On Feb 25, 2:56 pm, "Razor" wrote:
> >Let's wait till the end of the combine and see who's stock has
> >skyrocketed and then who wants that particular player.
>
> It's more than just finding out who wants a particular player and how bad.
> Part of the equation is convincing any potential trade partners that we want
> a particular player and intend to draft him. No one is going to trade with
> us if they believe a particular player will fall to them or that they can
> trade to the #2 or #3 spot and still get the guy they want.
>
> My guess is that the guy everyone expects Miami to take at #1 on draft day
> will NOT be the guy they actually take. I think they will have a player they
> are really interested in, but will be very low-key about it. Likewise, they
> will have a player that they are talking up, visiting, showing a lot of
> interest in, etc. That'll be the decoy. That'll be the guy that all of the
> draftniks will project going to Miami.

While all that is relative, and things certainly may work out the way
you suggest, the quickest way to draft riches by trading the #1 pick
is to have two teams interested in the same player. Any good auction
pits more than one buyer against each other for the same item. Which
is why we should hope that someone emerges as the best player in the
draft, hands down.

Looking at the draft order, and considering team needs, it would have
to be a RB (McFadden) or a QB (Ryan). The Jets, Falcons and Raiders
are all in need of a quality RB, while the Falcons and Chiefs could
both use a QB. Other than that, we'd have to hope that a team from
further back in the draft reaches out to fill a need.

St. Louis (#2) needs a DE, S, and could also use a WR. With the second
pick, they'll get the best at either of those positions that Miami
doens't draft. Not much chance to deal with them.

Atlanta (#3) needs a QB, RB, DT and MLB. They could also use some
help on the o-line. The only way we work a deal with them is if they
really like one player. They'll have a half-dozen to choose from if
they aren't in love with one specific player.

Oakland (#4) needs just about everything. Al just paid Jamarcus
Russell a king's ransom, so he's not likely to move up to #1. I'd
expect to see AL try to trade down.

Kansas City (#5) needs a QB, OL and help on defense, but Carl Peterson
isn't very likely to trade up. Carl is probably happy to sit pat at
#5 and take the best player.

The Nasty Jetsies (#6) might need a RB if they can deal Thomas Jones.
Jones is at the point in his career where he'll only be effective
behind a really good o-line. He'll be 30 by the time the season
starts and has clearly lost a step. Leon Washington is a good option
for 3rd down back. Jets need a real game-breaker at RB so they might
be interested in McFadden. If they don't deal Jones by draft day, we
can pretty much kiss that possibility good-bye.

The Cheatriots (#7 from San Fran) might be interested in one of the
DB's or pass rushers, but not inerested enough to move up 6 spots.
Belicheat might talk to Bill about a possible "less than market value
move," and Bill might be interested. But I don't really see anything
getting done there.

Baltimore (# Cool

might be interested in a QB. Other than QB, moving up
7 spots would be cost prohibitive unless they believe there's another
Ray Lewis in this draft.

Cincinnati (#9) has needs, but discipline is the first order of
business for the Queen City Kitties. No trade (or rookie) will change
the team's discipline. The only way I see a deal getting done here is
if it involves Chad Johnson.

New Orleans (#10) needs a DT, they get no push up the middle which
puts more pressure on the DE's. Dorsey isn't good enough to make them
move up 9 spots.

On a draft related note, here's an interesting article about the draft
and how messed up it has become. Bill Polian, my favorite NFL GM,
seems to be leading the charge to change the way the NFL does business
on draft day. He has been very outspoken in the recent past about how
high the guaranteed money has gotten for college kids. In this
article he explains more about that situation, from a GM's
perspective.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/SPORTS03/802240453/1058/SPORTS03

Terry Gowan

euphemism · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 25

Razor wrote:
>> Let's wait till the end of the combine and see who's stock has
>> skyrocketed and then who wants that particular player.
>
> It's more than just finding out who wants a particular player and how bad.
> Part of the equation is convincing any potential trade partners that we want
> a particular player and intend to draft him. No one is going to trade with
> us if they believe a particular player will fall to them or that they can
> trade to the #2 or #3 spot and still get the guy they want.
>
> My guess is that the guy everyone expects Miami to take at #1 on draft day
> will NOT be the guy they actually take. I think they will have a player they
> are really interested in, but will be very low-key about it. Likewise, they
> will have a player that they are talking up, visiting, showing a lot of
> interest in, etc. That'll be the decoy. That'll be the guy that all of the
> draftniks will project going to Miami.
>
>

If they have any working brain cells, they will either arrange a trade
or sign a player in advance of the draft. Being smart beats being
sneaky, hands down. Making that top pick on draft day is Al Davis
stupid and buys you a long and acrimonious hold-out.

There are (evidently) a number of players that are reasonable choices at
#1 if you get stuck making that pick - there is NO player that is a
consensus or obvious pick. The talk right now is that if Miami passes
on McFadden, he drops to #6. There are supposedly many teams that covet
him - the two named are Atlanta and Oakland - but I don't see but one
with the juice to get him at #1. Does anyone think Tuna will draft
McFadden? Not me.

Ü

euphemism · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 25

tgowan wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2:56 pm, "Razor" wrote:
>>> Let's wait till the end of the combine and see who's stock has
>>> skyrocketed and then who wants that particular player.
>> It's more than just finding out who wants a particular player and how bad.
>> Part of the equation is convincing any potential trade partners that we want
>> a particular player and intend to draft him. No one is going to trade with
>> us if they believe a particular player will fall to them or that they can
>> trade to the #2 or #3 spot and still get the guy they want.
>>
>> My guess is that the guy everyone expects Miami to take at #1 on draft day
>> will NOT be the guy they actually take. I think they will have a player they
>> are really interested in, but will be very low-key about it. Likewise, they
>> will have a player that they are talking up, visiting, showing a lot of
>> interest in, etc. That'll be the decoy. That'll be the guy that all of the
>> draftniks will project going to Miami.
>
>
> While all that is relative, and things certainly may work out the way
> you suggest, the quickest way to draft riches by trading the #1 pick
> is to have two teams interested in the same player. Any good auction
> pits more than one buyer against each other for the same item. Which
> is why we should hope that someone emerges as the best player in the
> draft, hands down.
>
> Looking at the draft order, and considering team needs, it would have
> to be a RB (McFadden) or a QB (Ryan). The Jets, Falcons and Raiders
> are all in need of a quality RB, while the Falcons and Chiefs could
> both use a QB. Other than that, we'd have to hope that a team from
> further back in the draft reaches out to fill a need.
>
> St. Louis (#2) needs a DE, S, and could also use a WR. With the second
> pick, they'll get the best at either of those positions that Miami
> doens't draft. Not much chance to deal with them.
>
> Atlanta (#3) needs a QB, RB, DT and MLB. They could also use some
> help on the o-line. The only way we work a deal with them is if they
> really like one player. They'll have a half-dozen to choose from if
> they aren't in love with one specific player.
>
> Oakland (#4) needs just about everything. Al just paid Jamarcus
> Russell a king's ransom, so he's not likely to move up to #1. I'd
> expect to see AL try to trade down.
>
> Kansas City (#5) needs a QB, OL and help on defense, but Carl Peterson
> isn't very likely to trade up. Carl is probably happy to sit pat at
> #5 and take the best player.
>
> The Nasty Jetsies (#6) might need a RB if they can deal Thomas Jones.
> Jones is at the point in his career where he'll only be effective
> behind a really good o-line. He'll be 30 by the time the season
> starts and has clearly lost a step. Leon Washington is a good option
> for 3rd down back. Jets need a real game-breaker at RB so they might
> be interested in McFadden. If they don't deal Jones by draft day, we
> can pretty much kiss that possibility good-bye.
>
> The Cheatriots (#7 from San Fran) might be interested in one of the
> DB's or pass rushers, but not inerested enough to move up 6 spots.
> Belicheat might talk to Bill about a possible "less than market value
> move," and Bill might be interested. But I don't really see anything
> getting done there.
>
> Baltimore (# Cool

might be interested in a QB. Other than QB, moving up
> 7 spots would be cost prohibitive unless they believe there's another
> Ray Lewis in this draft.
>
> Cincinnati (#9) has needs, but discipline is the first order of
> business for the Queen City Kitties. No trade (or rookie) will change
> the team's discipline. The only way I see a deal getting done here is
> if it involves Chad Johnson.
>
> New Orleans (#10) needs a DT, they get no push up the middle which
> puts more pressure on the DE's. Dorsey isn't good enough to make them
> move up 9 spots.
>
> On a draft related note, here's an interesting article about the draft
> and how messed up it has become. Bill Polian, my favorite NFL GM,
> seems to be leading the charge to change the way the NFL does business
> on draft day. He has been very outspoken in the recent past about how
> high the guaranteed money has gotten for college kids. In this
> article he explains more about that situation, from a GM's
> perspective.
>
> http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/SPORTS03/802240453/1058/SPORTS03
>
> Terry Gowan

Just guessing that the only "strategy" for Ireland is to have the
Dolphins start negotiating with a player or two (or three) in hopes that
some GM will piss his pants and make an offer for that top pick. Word
would get out.

At the end of the day, they can't hold this top pick until the draft
begins without signing a player ahead of the actual start. For some
reason Al Davis allowed his team to go into the draft holding that #1
pick and then (duh!) endured a long hold out and then paid the guy what
they'd have had to pay the guy in to get a deal done in early April.
That's just plain stupid. One of the few advantages you have with that
#1 pick is the ability to play one guy off another and see which one
really wants to be the #1 pick and be in camp from Day One. If you
can't trade down, at least be smart and get your guy signed.

Ü

tgowan · Joined: 07 Feb 2008 Posts: 8

On Feb 25, 5:25 pm, euphemism wrote:
> tgowan wrote:
> > On Feb 25, 2:56 pm, "Razor" wrote:
> >>> Let's wait till the end of the combine and see who's stock has
> >>> skyrocketed and then who wants that particular player.
> >> It's more than just finding out who wants a particular player and how bad.
> >> Part of the equation is convincing any potential trade partners that we want
> >> a particular player and intend to draft him. No one is going to trade with
> >> us if they believe a particular player will fall to them or that they can
> >> trade to the #2 or #3 spot and still get the guy they want.
>
> >> My guess is that the guy everyone expects Miami to take at #1 on draft day
> >> will NOT be the guy they actually take. I think they will have a player they
> >> are really interested in, but will be very low-key about it. Likewise, they
> >> will have a player that they are talking up, visiting, showing a lot of
> >> interest in, etc. That'll be the decoy. That'll be the guy that all of the
> >> draftniks will project going to Miami.
>
> > While all that is relative, and things certainly may work out the way
> > you suggest, the quickest way to draft riches by trading the #1 pick
> > is to have two teams interested in the same player. Any good auction
> > pits more than one buyer against each other for the same item. Which
> > is why we should hope that someone emerges as the best player in the
> > draft, hands down.
>
> > Looking at the draft order, and considering team needs, it would have
> > to be a RB (McFadden) or a QB (Ryan). The Jets, Falcons and Raiders
> > are all in need of a quality RB, while the Falcons and Chiefs could
> > both use a QB. Other than that, we'd have to hope that a team from
> > further back in the draft reaches out to fill a need.
>
> > St. Louis (#2) needs a DE, S, and could also use a WR. With the second
> > pick, they'll get the best at either of those positions that Miami
> > doens't draft. Not much chance to deal with them.
>
> > Atlanta (#3) needs a QB, RB, DT and MLB. They could also use some
> > help on the o-line. The only way we work a deal with them is if they
> > really like one player. They'll have a half-dozen to choose from if
> > they aren't in love with one specific player.
>
> > Oakland (#4) needs just about everything. Al just paid Jamarcus
> > Russell a king's ransom, so he's not likely to move up to #1. I'd
> > expect to see AL try to trade down.
>
> > Kansas City (#5) needs a QB, OL and help on defense, but Carl Peterson
> > isn't very likely to trade up. Carl is probably happy to sit pat at
> > #5 and take the best player.
>
> > The Nasty Jetsies (#6) might need a RB if they can deal Thomas Jones.
> > Jones is at the point in his career where he'll only be effective
> > behind a really good o-line. He'll be 30 by the time the season
> > starts and has clearly lost a step. Leon Washington is a good option
> > for 3rd down back. Jets need a real game-breaker at RB so they might
> > be interested in McFadden. If they don't deal Jones by draft day, we
> > can pretty much kiss that possibility good-bye.
>
> > The Cheatriots (#7 from San Fran) might be interested in one of the
> > DB's or pass rushers, but not inerested enough to move up 6 spots.
> > Belicheat might talk to Bill about a possible "less than market value
> > move," and Bill might be interested. But I don't really see anything
> > getting done there.
>
> > Baltimore (# Cool

might be interested in a QB. Other than QB, moving up
> > 7 spots would be cost prohibitive unless they believe there's another
> > Ray Lewis in this draft.
>
> > Cincinnati (#9) has needs, but discipline is the first order of
> > business for the Queen City Kitties. No trade (or rookie) will change
> > the team's discipline. The only way I see a deal getting done here is
> > if it involves Chad Johnson.
>
> > New Orleans (#10) needs a DT, they get no push up the middle which
> > puts more pressure on the DE's. Dorsey isn't good enough to make them
> > move up 9 spots.
>
> > On a draft related note, here's an interesting article about the draft
> > and how messed up it has become. Bill Polian, my favorite NFL GM,
> > seems to be leading the charge to change the way the NFL does business
> > on draft day. He has been very outspoken in the recent past about how
> > high the guaranteed money has gotten for college kids. In this
> > article he explains more about that situation, from a GM's
> > perspective.
>
> >http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/SPORTS03/....
>
> > Terry Gowan
>
> Just guessing that the only "strategy" for Ireland is to have the
> Dolphins start negotiating with a player or two (or three) in hopes that
> some GM will piss his pants and make an offer for that top pick. Word
> would get out.
>
> At the end of the day, they can't hold this top pick until the draft
> begins without signing a player ahead of the actual start. For some
> reason Al Davis allowed his team to go into the draft holding that #1
> pick and then (duh!) endured a long hold out and then paid the guy what
> they'd have had to pay the guy in to get a deal done in early April.
> That's just plain stupid. One of the few advantages you have with that
> #1 pick is the ability to play one guy off another and see which one
> really wants to be the #1 pick and be in camp from Day One. If you
> can't trade down, at least be smart and get your guy signed.
>
> Ü

I don't really see us trading the pick. There isn't enough sanity in
the process to expect to find a trading partner. Having said that, I
agree that we should look for the guy we really want and then work
with his agent so they can get a deal done before draft day. Waiting
is foolish if you've committed to signing a guy. When you give them
what they're asking for or are really close, then you can insert
clauses to protect the team against bad behavior, poor performance,
etc.

Terry Gowan

euphemism · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 25

tgowan wrote:
> On Feb 25, 5:25 pm, euphemism wrote:
>> tgowan wrote:
>>> On Feb 25, 2:56 pm, "Razor" wrote:
>>>>> Let's wait till the end of the combine and see who's stock has
>>>>> skyrocketed and then who wants that particular player.
>>>> It's more than just finding out who wants a particular player and how bad.
>>>> Part of the equation is convincing any potential trade partners that we want
>>>> a particular player and intend to draft him. No one is going to trade with
>>>> us if they believe a particular player will fall to them or that they can
>>>> trade to the #2 or #3 spot and still get the guy they want.
>>>> My guess is that the guy everyone expects Miami to take at #1 on draft day
>>>> will NOT be the guy they actually take. I think they will have a player they
>>>> are really interested in, but will be very low-key about it. Likewise, they
>>>> will have a player that they are talking up, visiting, showing a lot of
>>>> interest in, etc. That'll be the decoy. That'll be the guy that all of the
>>>> draftniks will project going to Miami.
>>> While all that is relative, and things certainly may work out the way
>>> you suggest, the quickest way to draft riches by trading the #1 pick
>>> is to have two teams interested in the same player. Any good auction
>>> pits more than one buyer against each other for the same item. Which
>>> is why we should hope that someone emerges as the best player in the
>>> draft, hands down.
>>> Looking at the draft order, and considering team needs, it would have
>>> to be a RB (McFadden) or a QB (Ryan). The Jets, Falcons and Raiders
>>> are all in need of a quality RB, while the Falcons and Chiefs could
>>> both use a QB. Other than that, we'd have to hope that a team from
>>> further back in the draft reaches out to fill a need.
>>> St. Louis (#2) needs a DE, S, and could also use a WR. With the second
>>> pick, they'll get the best at either of those positions that Miami
>>> doens't draft. Not much chance to deal with them.
>>> Atlanta (#3) needs a QB, RB, DT and MLB. They could also use some
>>> help on the o-line. The only way we work a deal with them is if they
>>> really like one player. They'll have a half-dozen to choose from if
>>> they aren't in love with one specific player.
>>> Oakland (#4) needs just about everything. Al just paid Jamarcus
>>> Russell a king's ransom, so he's not likely to move up to #1. I'd
>>> expect to see AL try to trade down.
>>> Kansas City (#5) needs a QB, OL and help on defense, but Carl Peterson
>>> isn't very likely to trade up. Carl is probably happy to sit pat at
>>> #5 and take the best player.
>>> The Nasty Jetsies (#6) might need a RB if they can deal Thomas Jones.
>>> Jones is at the point in his career where he'll only be effective
>>> behind a really good o-line. He'll be 30 by the time the season
>>> starts and has clearly lost a step. Leon Washington is a good option
>>> for 3rd down back. Jets need a real game-breaker at RB so they might
>>> be interested in McFadden. If they don't deal Jones by draft day, we
>>> can pretty much kiss that possibility good-bye.
>>> The Cheatriots (#7 from San Fran) might be interested in one of the
>>> DB's or pass rushers, but not inerested enough to move up 6 spots.
>>> Belicheat might talk to Bill about a possible "less than market value
>>> move," and Bill might be interested. But I don't really see anything
>>> getting done there.
>>> Baltimore (# Cool

might be interested in a QB. Other than QB, moving up
>>> 7 spots would be cost prohibitive unless they believe there's another
>>> Ray Lewis in this draft.
>>> Cincinnati (#9) has needs, but discipline is the first order of
>>> business for the Queen City Kitties. No trade (or rookie) will change
>>> the team's discipline. The only way I see a deal getting done here is
>>> if it involves Chad Johnson.
>>> New Orleans (#10) needs a DT, they get no push up the middle which
>>> puts more pressure on the DE's. Dorsey isn't good enough to make them
>>> move up 9 spots.
>>> On a draft related note, here's an interesting article about the draft
>>> and how messed up it has become. Bill Polian, my favorite NFL GM,
>>> seems to be leading the charge to change the way the NFL does business
>>> on draft day. He has been very outspoken in the recent past about how
>>> high the guaranteed money has gotten for college kids. In this
>>> article he explains more about that situation, from a GM's
>>> perspective.
>>> http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/SPORTS03/...
>>> Terry Gowan
>> Just guessing that the only "strategy" for Ireland is to have the
>> Dolphins start negotiating with a player or two (or three) in hopes that
>> some GM will piss his pants and make an offer for that top pick. Word
>> would get out.
>>
>> At the end of the day, they can't hold this top pick until the draft
>> begins without signing a player ahead of the actual start. For some
>> reason Al Davis allowed his team to go into the draft holding that #1
>> pick and then (duh!) endured a long hold out and then paid the guy what
>> they'd have had to pay the guy in to get a deal done in early April.
>> That's just plain stupid. One of the few advantages you have with that
>> #1 pick is the ability to play one guy off another and see which one
>> really wants to be the #1 pick and be in camp from Day One. If you
>> can't trade down, at least be smart and get your guy signed.
>>
>> Ü
>
>
> I don't really see us trading the pick. There isn't enough sanity in
> the process to expect to find a trading partner. Having said that, I
> agree that we should look for the guy we really want and then work
> with his agent so they can get a deal done before draft day. Waiting
> is foolish if you've committed to signing a guy. When you give them
> what they're asking for or are really close, then you can insert
> clauses to protect the team against bad behavior, poor performance,
> etc.
>
> Terry Gowan

If these guys are a savvy as their rep, they will get two or three guys
in the negotiation phase and make it known that they are okay with which
ever guy shows he's more about play than pay. Whomever they pick is
virtually guaranteed a $32M payday no matter the clauses the Dolphins
would like to build into the contract. This approach should be part of
the selection process - it tells you something about the player before
you have to go at these negotiations with a gun to your head. If
"Player A" turns out to be a prick, you can switch to Player B. Once
you make the pick in the draft, you're stuck.

Ü

Looneyt0on · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

On Feb 25, 4:55ï¿½pm, tgowan wrote:

> Atlanta (#3) needs a QB, RB, DT and MLB. ï¿½They could also use some
> help on the o-line. ï¿½The only way we work a deal with them is if they
> really like one player. ï¿½They'll have a half-dozen to choose from if
> they aren't in love with one specific player.

I can see them trading up to get Ryan if there's any interest shown in
the pick from elsewhere.

> Oakland (#4) needs just about everything. ï¿½Al just paid Jamarcus
> Russell a king's ransom, so he's not likely to move up to #1. ï¿½I'd
> expect to see AL try to trade down.

Al never makes sense. I can see him wanting to go after McFadden at
whatever the cost if he thinks he's the next Marcus Allen or Bo
Jackson.

> Kansas City (#5) needs a QB, OL and help on defense, but Carl Peterson
> isn't very likely to trade up. ï¿½Carl is probably happy to sit pat at
> #5 and take the best player.

I could see them interested in a QB as well, as Brodie Croyle doesn't
strike fear into anyone. But I dont think they'll be looking to move
up.

> The Nasty Jetsies (#6) might need a RB if they can deal Thomas Jones.
> Jones is at the point in his career where he'll only be effective
> behind a really good o-line. ï¿½He'll be 30 by the time the season
> starts and has clearly lost a step. ï¿½Leon Washington is a good option
> for 3rd down back. ï¿½Jets need a real game-breaker at RB so they might
> be interested in McFadden. ï¿½If they don't deal Jones by draft day, we
> can pretty much kiss that possibility good-bye.

they might also be interested in a QB with Kellen Clemens likely
becoming their starter.

> The Cheatriots (#7 from San Fran) might be interested in one of the
> DB's or pass rushers, but not inerested enough to move up 6 spots.
> Belicheat might talk to Bill about a possible "less than market value
> move," and Bill might be interested. ï¿½But I don't really see anything
> getting done there.

no need there.

> Baltimore (# Cool

might be interested in a QB. ï¿½Other than QB, moving up
> 7 spots would be cost prohibitive unless they believe there's another
> Ray Lewis in this draft.

They definitely need a QB.

> Cincinnati (#9) has needs, but discipline is the first order of
> business for the Queen City Kitties. ï¿½No trade (or rookie) will change
> the team's discipline. ï¿½The only way I see a deal getting done here is
> if it involves Chad Johnson.

Chad Johnson, the #9 pick and their 2nd rounder for the #1 so they can
draft McFadden. Still probably not enough on the value chart.

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