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John Carlson Now Top Rated TE

 
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seahawk



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

The NFL channel's college player rankings now have John Carlson of Notre
Dame ranked as the number 1 TE in the draft. I watched a live interview with
him and Fred Davis and it was said that Carlson would be doing all the
events but Davis was only going to run in select trials.

That really sours the milk for me on Davis even more. As I've pointed out
many times in the last couple of weeks, Davis has a reputation of being slow
for the position and it was assumed that interested teams would get a chance
to see a better performance at the combine. It looks as if he's trying to
mask the problem by not performing at the combine in any event where the
weakness will show itself. He's also one of the shortest guys at the
position at around 6' 3".

There was a great interview with Marcellus Bennett in the Seahawks Insider
who is the guy I've been touting.

http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2008/02/22/tight_end_martellus_bennett_quotes

He's a funny guy and talks about how much he likes blocking as well as
catching the ball. He's also worked at stutter step moves and other pro type
stuff in his Junior year at Texas A&M. He's also ranked as the number 1 TE
in some rankings. He's still considered to be the most complete TE out there
mainly because of his love of blocking and attention to the finer points of
the position. He's also Texas A&M's all time leading TE in receptions. I
keep saying it but it bears repeating, this is the guy we really need
because he does it all. He had 65 pancake blocks last season and is
considered an equally good blocker with his fingers in the dirt as he calls
blocking on the line of scrimmage as well as downfield. He might be
available in the second round but I doubt he'll last till our second pick.

John Carlson is also a fine looking prospect at the position and one I'd
rather see than Davis even at the # 25 pick. In his interview, he talked
about intending to be a complete TE and working on his blocking to make it
so. That tells me that he's not accomplished at it yet like Bennett is. I
like his measurables better than Davis though.

I believe that these three TE's (Davis, Carlson, and Bennett) will all be
gone by the time our second round pick comes up. If there's no one that
falls to us at #25 and we don't see a value player there at that position
and we consider it a reach to take one of these TE's at that pick, one move
I could support would be to trade down for a 2nd rounder in the top 10 picks
and I'm sure one of those three TE's will still be there at that spot and we
can get an extra pick in a very deep draft for TE's and RB's as well as some
other positions. That extra pick could very well allow us to select a DT
and/or CB and still spend three picks on a RB, TE, and OG in the first 4
rounds. That covers every critical position except a WR if we lose Hackett.

We should be able to get another player or two in free agency if needed.
Being able to sign Trufant to a regular contract will really determine how
active we can still be in free agency. $9.4 million is a lot of cash to have
to spend on one player in a single year and if we can't come to terms with
Trufant, we'll be tight under the cap. Next year he'll cost even more as a
franchised player like Jones did for awhile there. I'd almost even rather
trade him or get the two first round picks for him if he doesn't want to
agree to terms because of what it does to our other needs and our ability to
satisfy them. Rumors are that the Giants will make a pitch for a sign and
trade deal with us. Maybe a 1st round pick, Shockey, and a 2nd or 3rd
rounder might do it in place of two first rounder's. We could use the 1st
rounder and the extra 2nd or 3rd rounder to move up in this draft and get a
good CB to replace Trufant and with our TE situation resolved, we can use
our 1st rounder on another much needed player like a RB, DT, or even a WR if
we need one because of losing Hackett. I could go for that trade.

Rucker from Louisville and Finley from Texas are both guys that could become
a good TE for us but I would expect outside of Davis, Carlson, and Bennett,
you're looking at some one that's not going to be the big time player we
would like to have this year and will need a year or two to season before
really busting out. Rucker and Findley could be there at our # 2 or our # 3
pick and there's also that big guy out of Tennessee (Brad Cottam) who could
possibly even last until our 4th rounder. That's 6 TE's that could any one
of them come in and play better than we've had for a couple of years now and
I believe all could developed into a solid TE.

That's what makes this the deepest draft in quite some time for TE's. Last
year there were only a couple in the whole draft that could be considered as
good a prospect as the 6 guys I listed in this post as an example. This is
definitely the year we need to use one of our first 3 or 4 picks on a TE who
can put the position out of the area of a big need every year for at least 4
or 5 years.

One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and I'll be
hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.

--
William P. Tomisser
"Power Of Ten" Band
www.poweroften.net
Anchorage, Alaska

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Alai



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and I'll be
> hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.

I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be another one
of those years and pick yet another short little cornerback at #1.
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Trakar



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

"Alai" wrote in message @comcast.com...
>> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and I'll
>> be hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.
>
> I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be another one
> of those years and pick yet another short little cornerback at #1.

Well, in order, though I'm not sure if there is a ranking by order of need
or just a random listing of needs, according to NFL listings on their
combine coverage, but it lists the Seahawk's team needs
as T- LS - TE - RB
Not sure what kind of order these are listed in but I have seen other teams
needs with many of the same positions listed, but in different orders, so
there must be some sort of preference list that they are using.
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seahawk



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

"Alai" wrote in message @comcast.com...
>> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and I'll
>> be hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.
>
> I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be another one
> of those years and pick yet another short little cornerback at #1.
>


Would that be the pits or what. Smile

Most mock drafts that don't show us taking Fred Davis at #25 show him going
in the first 15 picks of the second round and then no other TE's taken until
after our second round pick. I'm beginning to be of the opinion that we
should draft another position with our first rounder (mainly because I don't
want Fred Davis) and then we'll have our pick of the rest of the TE's with
our 2nd round pick. Of course there's no guarantee they would all be
available except for Davis but all the mock drafters I've seen believe so.
Some of the Mocks have us taking my personal crusade who is Martellus
Bennett in the second round who did very well at the combine today. Carlson
didn't have a very good workout and Davis didn't workout at all.

Here's hoping.

--
William P. Tomisser
"Power Of Ten" Band
www.poweroften.net
Anchorage, Alaska
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Stephen Trapani



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:42 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

Alai wrote:
>> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and I'll be
>> hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.
>
> I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be another one
> of those years and pick yet another short little cornerback at #1.

The thing to wish for, I think, is that the right TE falls in the right
spot, whatever round it is. And by "fall" I'd take a good UFA TE
"falling" off his team at the right price too. (Shockey! Shockey! Shockey!)

If neither of those happen, I think Ruskell has shown he's not going to
reach or overpay to fill a gap, no matter how important the gap is. He
didn't do it last season with TEs or guards or DTs or safeties or any of
the other big gaps last offseason, he's unlikely to start now.

Stephen
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seahawk



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

"Trakar" wrote in message @comcast.com...
>
> "Alai" wrote in message
> @comcast.com...
>>> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and I'll
>>> be hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.
>>
>> I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be another
>> one of those years and pick yet another short little cornerback at #1.
>
> Well, in order, though I'm not sure if there is a ranking by order of need
> or just a random listing of needs, according to NFL listings on their
> combine coverage, but it lists the Seahawk's team needs
> as T- LS - TE - RB
> Not sure what kind of order these are listed in but I have seen other
> teams needs with many of the same positions listed, but in different
> orders, so there must be some sort of preference list that they are using.
>

Not too bad a list but the order's screwed up. We need a TE and RB before
the long snapper or the tackle. We need a guard before another tackle
(assuming that they're talking about an offensive tackle).

Most of those dipshits don't have a clue. I've seen a couple that list our
needs as CB, OT, and LB. Come on. We're set at LB and we need another guard
before a OT. CB has a little validity but we're needing a TE, RB, and DT way
before those other positions.

--
William P. Tomisser
"Power Of Ten" Band
www.poweroften.net
Anchorage, Alaska
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Stephen Trapani



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:44 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

Trakar wrote:
> "Alai" wrote in message
> @comcast.com...
>>> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and I'll
>>> be hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.
>> I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be another one
>> of those years and pick yet another short little cornerback at #1.
>
> Well, in order, though I'm not sure if there is a ranking by order of need
> or just a random listing of needs, according to NFL listings on their
> combine coverage, but it lists the Seahawk's team needs
> as T- LS - TE - RB
> Not sure what kind of order these are listed in but I have seen other teams
> needs with many of the same positions listed, but in different orders, so
> there must be some sort of preference list that they are using.

What's 'T' tackle? Must have been before they signed Locklear.

Stephen
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seahawk



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:57 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message $AA4.15@newsfe05.lga...
> Alai wrote:
>>> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and I'll
>>> be hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.
>>
>> I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be another
>> one of those years and pick yet another short little cornerback at #1.
>
> The thing to wish for, I think, is that the right TE falls in the right
> spot, whatever round it is. And by "fall" I'd take a good UFA TE "falling"
> off his team at the right price too. (Shockey! Shockey! Shockey!)
>
> If neither of those happen, I think Ruskell has shown he's not going to
> reach or overpay to fill a gap, no matter how important the gap is. He
> didn't do it last season with TEs or guards or DTs or safeties or any of
> the other big gaps last offseason, he's unlikely to start now.
>
> Stephen


Stephen, see my other post in this thread about where the TE's are falling
on the mocks. I think our best shot now is with our second round pick if
those mock drafters have any validity at all.

I also speculated a little on Shockey. There was a rumor that the Giants
were going to make an offer for a sign and trade deal for Trufant. I think
if we got a first rounder plus Shockey plus maybe a second rounder, we could
make out by virtue of the fact we could bundle one of the first rounder's
with one of the second rounder's to move up and select a CB to replace
Trufant with and have a TE good for 3 or 4 years and also have our other
first rounder and second rounder intact for use on other positions of need.
We in essence gain the TE without spending a pick on him from the
perspective of where we are now.

The one bad thing is we lose Trufant's experience and we run the risk that
the new CB won't be as good as Trufant is. The new CB saves us a ton of
money over the next 4 years though since Trufant would cost us around 8 or 9
million a year and the new CB would be half as much.

Would you do that deal?

--
William P. Tomisser
"Power Of Ten" Band
www.poweroften.net
Anchorage, Alaska
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Stephen Trapani



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

seahawk wrote:
> "Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
> $AA4.15@newsfe05.lga...
>> Alai wrote:
>>>> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and
>>>> I'll be hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.
>>>
>>> I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be
>>> another one of those years and pick yet another short little
>>> cornerback at #1.
>>
>> The thing to wish for, I think, is that the right TE falls in the
>> right spot, whatever round it is. And by "fall" I'd take a good UFA TE
>> "falling" off his team at the right price too. (Shockey! Shockey!
>> Shockey!)
>>
>> If neither of those happen, I think Ruskell has shown he's not going
>> to reach or overpay to fill a gap, no matter how important the gap is.
>> He didn't do it last season with TEs or guards or DTs or safeties or
>> any of the other big gaps last offseason, he's unlikely to start now.
>>
>> Stephen
>
>
> Stephen, see my other post in this thread about where the TE's are
> falling on the mocks. I think our best shot now is with our second round
> pick if those mock drafters have any validity at all.

I hope Bennett falls all the way in the second round then, from the
sound of him, or some better TE. The TEs sure fell in the last draft.
Maybe they weren't as good as these, I don't know.

> I also speculated a little on Shockey. There was a rumor that the Giants
> were going to make an offer for a sign and trade deal for Trufant. I
> think if we got a first rounder plus Shockey plus maybe a second
> rounder, we could make out by virtue of the fact we could bundle one of
> the first rounder's with one of the second rounder's to move up and
> select a CB to replace Trufant with and have a TE good for 3 or 4 years
> and also have our other first rounder and second rounder intact for use
> on other positions of need. We in essence gain the TE without spending a
> pick on him from the perspective of where we are now.
>
> The one bad thing is we lose Trufant's experience and we run the risk
> that the new CB won't be as good as Trufant is. The new CB saves us a
> ton of money over the next 4 years though since Trufant would cost us
> around 8 or 9 million a year and the new CB would be half as much.
>
> Would you do that deal?

I guess it depends upon what the other options are, TE-wise; and how
expensive Shockey is, cap-wise, and how much cheaper the Seahawks can
get Trufant with a long term contract... Things get complicated fast in
these kinds of deals and figuring out the right deal from where we sit
is....well you know the rest.

Having said that, I can wildly speculate. I wouldn't trade Trufant
straight across for Shockey. Shockey and a second rounder is closer but
probably not enough still. Trufant is damn expensive with the franchise
tag, but if he's gone you can't even expect a first round CB to be able
to replace him. The CBs who can come out of college and play well in
season one right away are few and far between. Most of the great ones
need a few years to develop just like Trufant did.

Stephen
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seahawk



Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message $sY4.73@newsfe02.lga...
> seahawk wrote:
>> "Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
>> $AA4.15@newsfe05.lga...
>>> Alai wrote:
>>>>> One way or another, this is the Seahawk's year to acquire a TE and
>>>>> I'll be hugely disappointed if we don't do it somehow.
>>>>
>>>> I wish so too, but Hawks surprised us before and this could be another
>>>> one of those years and pick yet another short little cornerback at #1.
>>>
>>> The thing to wish for, I think, is that the right TE falls in the right
>>> spot, whatever round it is. And by "fall" I'd take a good UFA TE
>>> "falling" off his team at the right price too. (Shockey! Shockey!
>>> Shockey!)
>>>
>>> If neither of those happen, I think Ruskell has shown he's not going to
>>> reach or overpay to fill a gap, no matter how important the gap is. He
>>> didn't do it last season with TEs or guards or DTs or safeties or any of
>>> the other big gaps last offseason, he's unlikely to start now.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>
>>
>> Stephen, see my other post in this thread about where the TE's are
>> falling on the mocks. I think our best shot now is with our second round
>> pick if those mock drafters have any validity at all.
>
> I hope Bennett falls all the way in the second round then, from the sound
> of him, or some better TE. The TEs sure fell in the last draft. Maybe they
> weren't as good as these, I don't know.
>
>> I also speculated a little on Shockey. There was a rumor that the Giants
>> were going to make an offer for a sign and trade deal for Trufant. I
>> think if we got a first rounder plus Shockey plus maybe a second rounder,
>> we could make out by virtue of the fact we could bundle one of the first
>> rounder's with one of the second rounder's to move up and select a CB to
>> replace Trufant with and have a TE good for 3 or 4 years and also have
>> our other first rounder and second rounder intact for use on other
>> positions of need. We in essence gain the TE without spending a pick on
>> him from the perspective of where we are now.
>>
>> The one bad thing is we lose Trufant's experience and we run the risk
>> that the new CB won't be as good as Trufant is. The new CB saves us a ton
>> of money over the next 4 years though since Trufant would cost us around
>> 8 or 9 million a year and the new CB would be half as much.
>>
>> Would you do that deal?
>
> I guess it depends upon what the other options are, TE-wise; and how
> expensive Shockey is, cap-wise, and how much cheaper the Seahawks can get
> Trufant with a long term contract... Things get complicated fast in these
> kinds of deals and figuring out the right deal from where we sit
> is....well you know the rest.
>
> Having said that, I can wildly speculate. I wouldn't trade Trufant
> straight across for Shockey. Shockey and a second rounder is closer but
> probably not enough still. Trufant is damn expensive with the franchise
> tag, but if he's gone you can't even expect a first round CB to be able to
> replace him. The CBs who can come out of college and play well in season
> one right away are few and far between. Most of the great ones need a few
> years to develop just like Trufant did.
>
> Stephen
>
>


I said trade Trufant for a 1st rounder, plus Shockey, plus a 2nd or 3rd
rounder. That would give us a 1st rounder plays a 2nd or 3rd to bundle and
move up far enough to get a good CB to replace Trufant with.

Don't know if the Giants would go that far. I can't remember where I saw
that rumor but if they make an offer, we'll see what comes of it.

I have high hopes that if we wait until our second round pick all the TE's
except Davis will be there. That would be quite a smorgasbord to choose
from. Bennett, Carlson, and Findley plus anyone else that impresses from the
combine and individual workouts. Bennett still looks the best to me. I saw a
couple of places refer to Seattle and that Bennett reminded them of a
Jerramy Stevens who would live up to what we thought we could have had with
him. That suits me just fine.

--
William P. Tomisser
"Power Of Ten" Band
www.poweroften.net
Anchorage, Alaska
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Trakar



Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: John Carlson Now Top Rated TE Reply with quote

"seahawk" wrote in message @corp.supernews.com...

>> Well, in order, though I'm not sure if there is a ranking by order of
>> need or just a random listing of needs, according to NFL listings on
>> their combine coverage, but it lists the Seahawk's team needs
>> as T- LS - TE - RB
>> Not sure what kind of order these are listed in but I have seen other
>> teams needs with many of the same positions listed, but in different
>> orders, so there must be some sort of preference list that they are
>> using.
>>
>
> Not too bad a list but the order's screwed up. We need a TE and RB before
> the long snapper or the tackle. We need a guard before another tackle
> (assuming that they're talking about an offensive tackle).

I would tend to put a good blocking/receiving (in that order of importance)
TE as a primary need, another tackle wouldn't hurt, then we definitely need
a LS, RB is way down on my list of requisites, and the draft is deep in them
so putting that last works for me.

> Most of those dipshits don't have a clue. I've seen a couple that list our
> needs as CB, OT, and LB. Come on. We're set at LB and we need another
> guard before a OT. CB has a little validity but we're needing a TE, RB,
> and DT way before those other positions.

I tend to agree, but this is some sort of NFL channel ranking, and I don't
have a clue as to where it is coming from, though the implication is that
this is somehow coming from some representative of the team.

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