The Surge is not a success

samson · Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 2

http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/

Archived from group: rec>sport>football>college

Emperor Wonko the Sane · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

On Feb 25, 11:45 am, samson wrote:
> http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/

Classic create strawman, knock strawman down.

Doug

rich hammett · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 202

Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Emperor Wonko the Sane:
> On Feb 25, 11:45 am, samson wrote:
>> http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/

> Classic create strawman, knock strawman down.

Be specific, what strawman is created?

rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ He always pictured himself a libertarian, which to my
\ way of thinking means ``I want the liberty to grow rich
/ and you can have the liberty to starve''. It's easy to
\ believe that no one should depend on society for help
/ when you yourself happen not to need such help.

Emperor Wonko the Sane · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

On Feb 25, 1:18 pm, rich hammett wrote:
> Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
> olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Emperor Wonko the Sane:
>
> > On Feb 25, 11:45 am, samson wrote:
> >>http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/
> > Classic create strawman, knock strawman down.
>
> Be specific, what strawman is created?
>

The only goal of the surge is to have the number of troops reduced by
now.

Doug

xyzzy · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 11

On Feb 25, 3:45 pm, Emperor Wonko the Sane
wrote:
> On Feb 25, 1:18 pm, rich hammett wrote:
>
> > Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
> > olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Emperor Wonko the Sane:
>
> > > On Feb 25, 11:45 am, samson wrote:
> > >>http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/
> > > Classic create strawman, knock strawman down.
>
> > Be specific, what strawman is created?
>
> The only goal of the surge is to have the number of troops reduced by
> now.

You're right, there was also the goal to give the Iraqis a safe time
for political reconciliation. That's going swimmingly.

Edward M. Kennedy · Joined: 03 Dec 2007 Posts: 75

I know! Let's make a list of all the goals and see which ones were met
and which were not!

"xyzzy" wrote in

> > >>http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/
> > > Classic create strawman, knock strawman down.
>
> > Be specific, what strawman is created?
>
> The only goal of the surge is to have the number of troops reduced by
> now.

You're right, there was also the goal to give the Iraqis a safe time
for political reconciliation. That's going swimmingly.

rich hammett · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 202

Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Emperor Wonko the Sane:
> On Feb 25, 1:18 pm, rich hammett wrote:
>> Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
>> olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Emperor Wonko the Sane:
>>
>> > On Feb 25, 11:45 am, samson wrote:
>> >>http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/
>> > Classic create strawman, knock strawman down.
>>
>> Be specific, what strawman is created?

> The only goal of the surge is to have the number of troops reduced by
> now.

I don't think it says that, at least not the parts that I
have read. It says that an important goal of the surge
was to reduce the number of troops, and it says this was
presented as a primary reason why the surge was necessary
and unavoidable. But the administration and its fans have
become experts at "rebranding" things like the whole Iraq
war, so we'll see if y'all get to do that with the "surge"
too.

rich
--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ He always pictured himself a libertarian, which to my
\ way of thinking means ``I want the liberty to grow rich
/ and you can have the liberty to starve''. It's easy to
\ believe that no one should depend on society for help
/ when you yourself happen not to need such help.

rich hammett · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 202

Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Edward M. Kennedy:
> I know! Let's make a list of all the goals and see which ones were met
> and which were not!

No, cuz then we'll have to hide it from even our own supporters.

rich

> "xyzzy" wrote in

>> > >>http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/
>> > > Classic create strawman, knock strawman down.
>>
>> > Be specific, what strawman is created?
>>
>> The only goal of the surge is to have the number of troops reduced by
>> now.

> You're right, there was also the goal to give the Iraqis a safe time
> for political reconciliation. That's going swimmingly.

--
-to reply, it's hot not warm
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
\ Rich Hammett http://home.hiwaay.net/~rhammett
/ He always pictured himself a libertarian, which to my
\ way of thinking means ``I want the liberty to grow rich
/ and you can have the liberty to starve''. It's easy to
\ believe that no one should depend on society for help
/ when you yourself happen not to need such help.

dd · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:21:57 -0000, rich hammett
wrote:

>Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
>olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Emperor Wonko the Sane:
>> On Feb 25, 1:18 pm, rich hammett wrote:
>>> Minun olisi pitänyt tietää, olisi pitänyt tietää,
>>> olisi pitänyt tietää KUKA SINÄ OLET, Emperor Wonko the Sane:
>>>
>>> > On Feb 25, 11:45 am, samson wrote:
>>> >>http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/
>>> > Classic create strawman, knock strawman down.
>>>
>>> Be specific, what strawman is created?
>
>> The only goal of the surge is to have the number of troops reduced by
>> now.
>
>I don't think it says that, at least not the parts that I
>have read. It says that an important goal of the surge
>was to reduce the number of troops, and it says this was
>presented as a primary reason why the surge was necessary
>and unavoidable. But the administration and its fans have
>become experts at "rebranding" things like the whole Iraq
>war, so we'll see if y'all get to do that with the "surge"
>too.
>
>rich

let's split the difference and end up nearer the truth. The
characterisation in the article was that the MAIN goal....the primary
purpose.....was troop reduction. After all, as he points out, a
*surge* implies a subsequent backward movement or some such bullshit.

The actuality is that this has been the goal all along. The surge was
just a new tactic for achieving that goal, and at this point the
*immediate* goal of that tactic itself has largely been met......an
abatement of violence that is allowing the Iraquis to solidify.

The author is relying on generalities taken as stipulations to make
his 'point'.

This article is just a twist of meaning that allows one to say
'therefor' the surge is NOT a success.....the author pretty much says
so himself.

Kokopeli · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 17

samson wrote:
> http://www.slate.com/id/2184890/

I don't get it. I thought Coke stop making The Surge years ago.
dw

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