Pat Tillman -- medical examiners' initial suspicions

observer · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 196

---
July 26, 2007 5:26 PM

Associated Press
http://tinyurl.com/2cu26z
---

Complete article:

Documents obtained by The Associated
Press show that Army medical examiners
were suspicious about the close proximity
of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's
forehead.

Those same documents reveal the exam-
iners tried without success to get authorities
to investigate whether the former N-F-L
player's death amounted to a crime.

The doctors names were blacked out on
the document. They said that the bullet holes
were so close together that it appeared the
Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired
from a mere ten yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a crim-
inal investigation, and asked Tillman's com-
rades whether he was disliked by his men
and whether they had any reason to believe
he was deliberately killed.

The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's
death at the hands of his comrades was a
friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were
outlined in 23-hundred pages of testimony
released to the A-P this week by the Defense
Department in response to a Freedom of
Information Act request.

--- end of article ---

Archived from group: alt>sports>football>pro>ariz-cardinals

bushlyed · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 19

On Jul 28, 7:42 am, "observer" wrote:
> observer wrote in message ...
>
> >---
> >July 26, 2007 5:26 PM
>
> >Associated Press
> > http://tinyurl.com/2cu26z
> >---
>
> >Complete article:
>
> >Documents obtained by The Associated
> >Press show that Army medical examiners
> >were suspicious about the close proximity
> >of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's
> >forehead.
>
> >Those same documents reveal the exam-
> >iners tried without success to get authorities
> >to investigate whether the former N-F-L
> >player's death amounted to a crime.
>
> >The doctors names were blacked out on
> >the document. They said that the bullet holes
> >were so close together that it appeared the
> >Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired
> >from a mere ten yards or so away.
>
> >Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a crim-
> >inal investigation, and asked Tillman's com-
> >rades whether he was disliked by his men
> >and whether they had any reason to believe
> >he was deliberately killed.
>
> >The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's
> >death at the hands of his comrades was a
> >friendly-fire accident.
>
> >The medical examiners' suspicions were
> >outlined in 23-hundred pages of testimony
> >released to the A-P this week by the Defense
> >Department in response to a Freedom of
> >Information Act request.
>
> >--- end of article ---
>
> ---
> The murder of an American hero?
>
> ARMY 'LIED OVER FOOTBALL STAR DEATH'
>
> By Anton Antonowicz Us Correspondent,
> In New York 28/07/2007
> http://tinyurl.com/26ebkh
> ---
>
> Complete article:
>
> A US soldier hailed a hero after he was
> killed in action may have been murdered
> by a comrade and the truth covered up,
> shock evidence suggests.
>
> Military chiefs claimed the former American
> football star Pat Tillman, 27, was shot dead
> by al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and gave him
> posthumous medals - before admitting it
> was friendly fire.
>
> Now previously secret official papers with
> medics' testimony indicate he may have
> been deliberately shot by a comrade 10
> yards away.
>
> They also tell how Army lawyers sent emails
> praising one other for preventing a criminal
> probe.
>
> And a general told investigators 70 times
> he could not recall what happened. The
> revelations are a blow to George Bush's
> war effort. Congress will now probe how
> high the cover-up went in his government.
>
> Doctors' suspicions were aroused by three
> bullet holes close together in Tillman's fore-
> head after his 2004 death. One told investi-
> gators: "The medical evidence did not match
> up with the scenario as described."
>
> The Department of Defense dossier also
> says soldier Bryan O'Neal - who claimed he
> saw the Ranger die in friendly fire - told a
> chaplain they had a row in Tillman's last
> moments.
>
> The cleric said as O'Neal lay on the ground
> panicking, Tillman swore at him and snapped:
> "God's not going to help you. You need to do
> something for yourself, you snivelling..."
>
> Tillman's mum Mary, who has long feared the
> £2million a year Arizona Cardinals player was
> deliberately killed, said yesterday: "It's about
> justice for Pat and for other soldiers. The
> nation has been deceived."
>
> In April, Private Jessica Lynch, 23, revealed
> Army chiefs lied about her escape from Iraq
> to make her a hero.
>
> --- end of article ---- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Bush lied about Tilman

Bush lied about Jessica Lynch

Bush lied about WMDs

Bush lied about yellow cake

Bushlyed

observer · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 196

observer wrote in message ...
>
>---
>July 26, 2007 5:26 PM
>
>Associated Press
> http://tinyurl.com/2cu26z
>---
>
>Complete article:
>
>Documents obtained by The Associated
>Press show that Army medical examiners
>were suspicious about the close proximity
>of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's
>forehead.
>
>Those same documents reveal the exam-
>iners tried without success to get authorities
>to investigate whether the former N-F-L
>player's death amounted to a crime.
>
>The doctors names were blacked out on
>the document. They said that the bullet holes
>were so close together that it appeared the
>Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired
>from a mere ten yards or so away.
>
>Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a crim-
>inal investigation, and asked Tillman's com-
>rades whether he was disliked by his men
>and whether they had any reason to believe
>he was deliberately killed.
>
>The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's
>death at the hands of his comrades was a
>friendly-fire accident.
>
>The medical examiners' suspicions were
>outlined in 23-hundred pages of testimony
>released to the A-P this week by the Defense
>Department in response to a Freedom of
>Information Act request.
>
>--- end of article ---

---
The murder of an American hero?

ARMY 'LIED OVER FOOTBALL STAR DEATH'

By Anton Antonowicz Us Correspondent,
In New York 28/07/2007
http://tinyurl.com/26ebkh
---

Complete article:

A US soldier hailed a hero after he was
killed in action may have been murdered
by a comrade and the truth covered up,
shock evidence suggests.

Military chiefs claimed the former American
football star Pat Tillman, 27, was shot dead
by al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and gave him
posthumous medals - before admitting it
was friendly fire.

Now previously secret official papers with
medics' testimony indicate he may have
been deliberately shot by a comrade 10
yards away.

They also tell how Army lawyers sent emails
praising one other for preventing a criminal
probe.

And a general told investigators 70 times
he could not recall what happened. The
revelations are a blow to George Bush's
war effort. Congress will now probe how
high the cover-up went in his government.

Doctors' suspicions were aroused by three
bullet holes close together in Tillman's fore-
head after his 2004 death. One told investi-
gators: "The medical evidence did not match
up with the scenario as described."

The Department of Defense dossier also
says soldier Bryan O'Neal - who claimed he
saw the Ranger die in friendly fire - told a
chaplain they had a row in Tillman's last
moments.

The cleric said as O'Neal lay on the ground
panicking, Tillman swore at him and snapped:
"God's not going to help you. You need to do
something for yourself, you snivelling..."

Tillman's mum Mary, who has long feared the
£2million a year Arizona Cardinals player was
deliberately killed, said yesterday: "It's about
justice for Pat and for other soldiers. The
nation has been deceived."

In April, Private Jessica Lynch, 23, revealed
Army chiefs lied about her escape from Iraq
to make her a hero.

--- end of article ---

Venger · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 55

observer wrote:
> observer wrote in message ...
>> ---
>> July 26, 2007 5:26 PM
>>
>> Associated Press
>> http://tinyurl.com/2cu26z
>> ---
>>
>> Complete article:
>>
>> Documents obtained by The Associated
>> Press show that Army medical examiners
>> were suspicious about the close proximity
>> of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's
>> forehead.
>>
>> Those same documents reveal the exam-
>> iners tried without success to get authorities
>> to investigate whether the former N-F-L
>> player's death amounted to a crime.
>>
>> The doctors names were blacked out on
>> the document. They said that the bullet holes
>> were so close together that it appeared the
>> Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired
>>from a mere ten yards or so away.
>> Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a crim-
>> inal investigation, and asked Tillman's com-
>> rades whether he was disliked by his men
>> and whether they had any reason to believe
>> he was deliberately killed.
>>
>> The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's
>> death at the hands of his comrades was a
>> friendly-fire accident.
>>
>> The medical examiners' suspicions were
>> outlined in 23-hundred pages of testimony
>> released to the A-P this week by the Defense
>> Department in response to a Freedom of
>> Information Act request.
>>
>> --- end of article ---
>
>
> ---
> The murder of an American hero?
>
> ARMY 'LIED OVER FOOTBALL STAR DEATH'
>
> By Anton Antonowicz Us Correspondent,
> In New York 28/07/2007
> http://tinyurl.com/26ebkh
> ---
>
> Complete article:
>
> A US soldier hailed a hero after he was
> killed in action may have been murdered
> by a comrade and the truth covered up,
> shock evidence suggests.

So very, very odd. What did Tillman run into? Why the absurdity around
his death? I doubt anyone will ever really know what happened, it's
tragic that his death turned into a farce. Even friendly fire is an
honorable death for a solider in combat, but this makes precious little
sense...

Venger

Al Mundy · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 46

wrote in message @e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

>Bush lied about Tilman

>Bush lied about Jessica Lynch

>Bush lied about WMDs

>Bush lied about yellow cake

It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it?

If this administration said the sun was going to rise tomorrow, I would
start stocking up on candles and flashlights.

Al Mundy · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 46

"James Farrar" wrote in message @4ax.com...
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:56:35 GMT, "Al Mundy" wrote:
>
>>
>> wrote in message
>>@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>Bush lied about Tilman
>>
>>>Bush lied about Jessica Lynch
>>
>>>Bush lied about WMDs
>>
>>>Bush lied about yellow cake
>>
>>It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it?
>
> A politician lied? Amazing. I'm stunned.

For most of them, only one out of ten words is a lie.

Bush can barely get his name out without one.

James Farrar · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 15

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:56:35 GMT, "Al Mundy" wrote:

>
> wrote in message
>@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Bush lied about Tilman
>
>>Bush lied about Jessica Lynch
>
>>Bush lied about WMDs
>
>>Bush lied about yellow cake
>
>It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it?

A politician lied? Amazing. I'm stunned.

bushlyed · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 19

On Jul 29, 6:33 am, James Farrar wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:47:31 -0500, "Al Mundy"
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"James Farrar" wrote in message
> >@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:56:35 GMT, "Al Mundy" wrote:
>
> >>> wrote in message
> >>>@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>>>Bush lied about Tilman
>
> >>>>Bush lied about Jessica Lynch
>
> >>>>Bush lied about WMDs
>
> >>>>Bush lied about yellow cake
>
> >>>It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it?
>
> >> A politician lied? Amazing. I'm stunned.
>
> >For most of them, only one out of ten words is a lie.
>
> >Bush can barely get his name out without one.
>
> I believe that you believe that.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

He believes that because it is TRUE

James Farrar · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 15

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:47:31 -0500, "Al Mundy"
wrote:

>
>"James Farrar" wrote in message
>@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:56:35 GMT, "Al Mundy" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> wrote in message
>>>@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>Bush lied about Tilman
>>>
>>>>Bush lied about Jessica Lynch
>>>
>>>>Bush lied about WMDs
>>>
>>>>Bush lied about yellow cake
>>>
>>>It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it?
>>
>> A politician lied? Amazing. I'm stunned.
>
>For most of them, only one out of ten words is a lie.
>
>Bush can barely get his name out without one.

I believe that you believe that.

"will · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 60

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 09:16:19 -0500, Venger
wrote:

>observer wrote:
>> observer wrote in message ...
>>> ---
>>> July 26, 2007 5:26 PM
>>>
>>> Associated Press
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2cu26z
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Complete article:
>>>
>>> Documents obtained by The Associated
>>> Press show that Army medical examiners
>>> were suspicious about the close proximity
>>> of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's
>>> forehead.
>>>
>>> Those same documents reveal the exam-
>>> iners tried without success to get authorities
>>> to investigate whether the former N-F-L
>>> player's death amounted to a crime.
>>>
>>> The doctors names were blacked out on
>>> the document. They said that the bullet holes
>>> were so close together that it appeared the
>>> Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired
>>>from a mere ten yards or so away.
>>> Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a crim-
>>> inal investigation, and asked Tillman's com-
>>> rades whether he was disliked by his men
>>> and whether they had any reason to believe
>>> he was deliberately killed.
>>>
>>> The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's
>>> death at the hands of his comrades was a
>>> friendly-fire accident.
>>>
>>> The medical examiners' suspicions were
>>> outlined in 23-hundred pages of testimony
>>> released to the A-P this week by the Defense
>>> Department in response to a Freedom of
>>> Information Act request.
>>>
>>> --- end of article ---
>>
>>
>> ---
>> The murder of an American hero?
>>
>> ARMY 'LIED OVER FOOTBALL STAR DEATH'
>>
>> By Anton Antonowicz Us Correspondent,
>> In New York 28/07/2007
>> http://tinyurl.com/26ebkh
>> ---
>>
>> Complete article:
>>
>> A US soldier hailed a hero after he was
>> killed in action may have been murdered
>> by a comrade and the truth covered up,
>> shock evidence suggests.
>
>So very, very odd. What did Tillman run into? Why the absurdity around
>his death? I doubt anyone will ever really know what happened, it's
>tragic that his death turned into a farce. Even friendly fire is an
>honorable death for a solider in combat, but this makes precious little
>sense...
>
>Venger

One of the things that bothers me is that everything has become
oversimplified. I don't know if that is unique to our partisan
propaganda era or not, but it certainly seems prevalent. The extremes
seem to set the tone.

No matter what the topic, there's no room for criticism or even a well
reasoned, nuanced position. Sadly, a well reasoned, nuanced position
is usually the best one.

Let's take the military. I'd argue that there are some bad people in
the military and it is getting worse because of the manpower needs due
to the war. While that would be dismissed out of hand by the folks
that think the military is heroic, the truth is a little more complex.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/28/eveningnews/main3107316.shtml?source=RSSattr=HOME_3107316

I think Tillman probably was killed by a bad guy in an elite outfit
and that the military can't afford to undo the propaganda work they've
done by admitting the truth.

If they admit that the military is a place where a good guy can get
killed by bad guys in the US uniform, it makes people think rather
than react. Right now, people are reacting. The image of the military
is positive, so people react positively. If they start really
thinking, the propaganda (sales pitch) isn't as effective.

Would you send your son into a situation where gangs thrive or would
you think twice? Would your view of the military change if you knew
gang members were recruiting there? Would you be more likely to think
"a pox on their house" and throw the baby out with the bath water?

Propaganda and advertising are bad for democracy.

Broncofan · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 17

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:33:36 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

>On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:47:31 -0500, "Al Mundy"
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"James Farrar" wrote in message
>>@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:56:35 GMT, "Al Mundy" wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> wrote in message
>>>>@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>>Bush lied about Tilman
>>>>
>>>>>Bush lied about Jessica Lynch
>>>>
>>>>>Bush lied about WMDs
>>>>
>>>>>Bush lied about yellow cake
>>>>
>>>>It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it?
>>>
>>> A politician lied? Amazing. I'm stunned.
>>
>>For most of them, only one out of ten words is a lie.
>>
>>Bush can barely get his name out without one.
>
>I believe that you believe that.

both of the Clinton's are far worse liars.
Clinton was impeached for lying under oath.
Lieberals and DEMONcRATS are morons.
Hypocritical treasnous bastards.

James Farrar · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 15

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:28:42 -0700, bushlyed@yahoo.com wrote:

>On Jul 29, 6:33 am, James Farrar wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:47:31 -0500, "Al Mundy"
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >"James Farrar" wrote in message
>> >@4ax.com...
>> >> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:56:35 GMT, "Al Mundy" wrote:
>>
>> >>> wrote in message
>> >>>@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >>>>Bush lied about Tilman
>>
>> >>>>Bush lied about Jessica Lynch
>>
>> >>>>Bush lied about WMDs
>>
>> >>>>Bush lied about yellow cake
>>
>> >>>It does seem to be a trend, doesn't it?
>>
>> >> A politician lied? Amazing. I'm stunned.
>>
>> >For most of them, only one out of ten words is a lie.
>>
>> >Bush can barely get his name out without one.
>>
>> I believe that you believe that.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>He believes that because it is TRUE

I believe that *you* believe *that*, but it's equally untrue.

FU set.

Duncan · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 19

> I think Tillman probably was killed by a bad guy in an elite outfit
> and that the military can't afford to undo the propaganda work they've
> done by admitting the truth.

The most likely scenerio is that there was a fire-fight. Someone standing
next to Tillman panicked, was holding down the trigger of his gun while in
full-automatic mode, turned while still shooting & hit Tillman.
During the American Civil War, there where quite a few incidents of soldiers
continuously 're-loading' their rifles even though they never fired a shot.
After the battle they would have a gun-barrel full of 6 or 7 unfired shots.
Strange things always happen in battle during the heat of the moment. One
never knows how One will handle the life-or-death stressful situation until
One is there in the heat of the moment.
The next time the USA has a War or Conflict, they should just ban & bar all
media coverage from the War Zone. You can not successfully fight & win a war
with a Free-Media just looking for sensationalism or with the involvement
political partisanship from either party... or as Iraq, Veitnam & Korea have
shown, bad political leadership.
The Tillman incident should have been over & done with a long time ago with
a simple letter to his Mother/Family : "Your son was killed in combat. He
died an honerable death while serving his country. We sincerely regret your
loss and extend our deepest sympathies to you."

End of Story.

"will · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 60

On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 05:08:43 -0400, "Duncan" wrote:

>
>> I think Tillman probably was killed by a bad guy in an elite outfit
>> and that the military can't afford to undo the propaganda work they've
>> done by admitting the truth.
>

>The next time the USA has a War or Conflict, they should just ban & bar all
>media coverage from the War Zone. You can not successfully fight & win a war
>with a Free-Media just looking for sensationalism or with the involvement
>political partisanship from either party... or as Iraq, Veitnam & Korea have
>shown, bad political leadership.

So they need the ability to make bad decisions secretly?

You guys are idiots. There is no sensationalism. Show the dead and
maimed. That's not sensational, that's the reality of war.