Specter: Patriots filmed Steelers 4 times

The Shadow · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

http://www.post-gazette.com

By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter said yesterday that he has a list of witnesses
and will pursue the "Spygate" case against the New England Patriots that
he said involved four games against the Steelers, including two AFC
championship games.

"I think Steelers fans have a lot to be concerned about this and I'm one
of them,'' Mr. Specter told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in an interview
yesterday, adding that "maybe Steelers ownership should think about it a
little."

Specter met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for more than an hour
Wednesday to discuss why evidence turned over by the Patriots that
documented their illegal videotaping of opposing coaches' signals was
destroyed. He said he was not satisfied with Mr. Goodell's explanation.

"I questioned him very closely why they destroyed the tapes and notes,''
said Mr. Specter, a Republican and the senior senator from Pennsylvania.
"He gave an answer that made no sense, saying they destroyed them so no
one could gain a competitive advantage. But if they put them under lock
and key, they couldn't have access to them."

Greg Aiello, NFL senior vice president of public relations, referred to
Mr. Goodell's news conference on Wednesday, where the commissioner said,
"I think we are going to agree to disagree on certain things, including
my view that we had an admission of guilt and, therefore, there was no
reason for the tapes to be kept."

Mr. Specter said he specifically asked if they had any notes on the
Steelers that were destroyed, and said NFL lawyer Jeffrey Pass indicated
notes turned over by the Patriots indicated that four games were
involved -- the AFC championship games in Heinz Field at the end of the
2001 and 2004 seasons, and two regular-season games in 2002 and 2004.
The Steelers lost three of those games, winning in the regular season in
2004.

"The commissioner confirmed the taping had been going on since the year
2000,'' Mr. Specter said. "He made no valid explanation for [destroying
the evidence]. There are a couple other major problems he had, to say
the least."

One problem, the senator said, is that Mr. Goodell imposed a $500,000
fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and
docked them a first-round draft pick this year before the commissioner
learned New England's illegal taping had been more widespread.

The commissioner issued the punishment after a Patriots cameraman was
caught taping signals of the New York Jets in their first meeting this
season. He then ordered the Patriots to turn over any evidence they had
of such taping, including notes. Afterward, no other evidence of illegal
taping was mentioned by the league at the time.

"The taping occurred on Sept. 9,'' Mr. Specter noted. "He imposed the
fine on the 13th, didn't get the material until the 17th and destroyed
it on the 20th. He imposed the fine before he had the notes and tapes.''

Mr. Specter said he may hold hearings into the case, which also possibly
involved the Philadelphia Eagles, who lost to the Patriots in the Super
Bowl after the 2004 season.

He said one witness he's talking to is Matt Walsh, the former Patriots
video director who may have been involved in taping the St. Louis Rams'
walk-through practice the day before they lost to the Patriots on Feb.
3, 2002.

"Matt Walsh is the guy who supposedly taped the walk-through on the Rams
game,'' Mr. Specter said. "The picture's starting to fit together. I've
been talking to Walsh's lawyer.''

Mr. Specter said the lawyer indicated Mr. Walsh was being investigated
"by a guy named Dick Farley, who is an NFL security guy and a former FBI
agent.

"I asked Goodell about it and he said Farley does work for NFL security
but that he didn't know anything about it.

"The plot thickens.''

Mr. Aiello said yesterday that Mr. Farley is looking at public records
and verifying Mr. Walsh's employment history.

Mr. Specter said he's been informed that the practice of Mr. Belichick's
staff illegally taping opposing coaches goes back to his days in the
1990s when he coached the old Cleveland Browns. He said Mr. Goodell told
him they never looked into that.

"When you have a pattern,'' Mr. Specter said, "you look for when the
pattern started.''

The senator said Mr. Goodell told him he has no more plans to
investigate "Spygate.''

"He has a fair-sized stone wall erected,'' Mr. Specter said.

Said Mr. Goodell at his news conference Wednesday, "We're not following
up; the senator said he wants to follow up."

Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina
yesterday, said:

"Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome
of the game? No.''

Steelers spokesman Dave Lockett also said that club officials believe
that the results of the game did not hinge on stolen signals.

When new Steelers coach Mike Tomlin first heard about the incident with
the New England cameraman in New York, he said at his weekly press
conference, "Where there's smoke, there's fire.''

To those who believe the NFL is trying to cover up and minimize
"Spygate," Mr. Goodell said Wednesday, "We are the ones who discovered
the violation and disclosed it. If we were trying to cover something up,
we wouldn't have taken the discipline we did and we wouldn't have
brought the situation to light. We have been very clear about what
happened. There was a violation of our policy."

Archived from group: alt>sports>football>pro>oak-raiders

Sac D · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 24

I think the following will be appropriate:

Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a $250,000 fine on
the team and dock them a first-round draft pick...for EACH infraction that
is documented in any way. That would include the four games against the
Steelers, the Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any other suspect games that the
League becomes aware of where the *'s cheated. Eventually they will get
the point.

-Sac D-

"The Shadow" wrote in message @bright.net...
> http://www.post-gazette.com
>
>
>
> By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
>
> U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter said yesterday that he has a list of witnesses and
> will pursue the "Spygate" case against the New England Patriots that he
> said involved four games against the Steelers, including two AFC
> championship games.
>
> "I think Steelers fans have a lot to be concerned about this and I'm one
> of them,'' Mr. Specter told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette in an interview
> yesterday, adding that "maybe Steelers ownership should think about it a
> little."
>
> Specter met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for more than an hour
> Wednesday to discuss why evidence turned over by the Patriots that
> documented their illegal videotaping of opposing coaches' signals was
> destroyed. He said he was not satisfied with Mr. Goodell's explanation.
>
> "I questioned him very closely why they destroyed the tapes and notes,''
> said Mr. Specter, a Republican and the senior senator from Pennsylvania.
> "He gave an answer that made no sense, saying they destroyed them so no
> one could gain a competitive advantage. But if they put them under lock
> and key, they couldn't have access to them."
>
> Greg Aiello, NFL senior vice president of public relations, referred to
> Mr. Goodell's news conference on Wednesday, where the commissioner said,
> "I think we are going to agree to disagree on certain things, including my
> view that we had an admission of guilt and, therefore, there was no reason
> for the tapes to be kept."
>
> Mr. Specter said he specifically asked if they had any notes on the
> Steelers that were destroyed, and said NFL lawyer Jeffrey Pass indicated
> notes turned over by the Patriots indicated that four games were
> involved -- the AFC championship games in Heinz Field at the end of the
> 2001 and 2004 seasons, and two regular-season games in 2002 and 2004. The
> Steelers lost three of those games, winning in the regular season in 2004.
>
> "The commissioner confirmed the taping had been going on since the year
> 2000,'' Mr. Specter said. "He made no valid explanation for [destroying
> the evidence]. There are a couple other major problems he had, to say the
> least."
>
> One problem, the senator said, is that Mr. Goodell imposed a $500,000 fine
> on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a $250,000 fine on the team and docked
> them a first-round draft pick this year before the commissioner learned
> New England's illegal taping had been more widespread.
>
> The commissioner issued the punishment after a Patriots cameraman was
> caught taping signals of the New York Jets in their first meeting this
> season. He then ordered the Patriots to turn over any evidence they had of
> such taping, including notes. Afterward, no other evidence of illegal
> taping was mentioned by the league at the time.
>
> "The taping occurred on Sept. 9,'' Mr. Specter noted. "He imposed the fine
> on the 13th, didn't get the material until the 17th and destroyed it on
> the 20th. He imposed the fine before he had the notes and tapes.''
>
> Mr. Specter said he may hold hearings into the case, which also possibly
> involved the Philadelphia Eagles, who lost to the Patriots in the Super
> Bowl after the 2004 season.
>
> He said one witness he's talking to is Matt Walsh, the former Patriots
> video director who may have been involved in taping the St. Louis Rams'
> walk-through practice the day before they lost to the Patriots on Feb. 3,
> 2002.
>
> "Matt Walsh is the guy who supposedly taped the walk-through on the Rams
> game,'' Mr. Specter said. "The picture's starting to fit together. I've
> been talking to Walsh's lawyer.''
>
> Mr. Specter said the lawyer indicated Mr. Walsh was being investigated "by
> a guy named Dick Farley, who is an NFL security guy and a former FBI
> agent.
>
> "I asked Goodell about it and he said Farley does work for NFL security
> but that he didn't know anything about it.
>
> "The plot thickens.''
>
> Mr. Aiello said yesterday that Mr. Farley is looking at public records and
> verifying Mr. Walsh's employment history.
>
> Mr. Specter said he's been informed that the practice of Mr. Belichick's
> staff illegally taping opposing coaches goes back to his days in the 1990s
> when he coached the old Cleveland Browns. He said Mr. Goodell told him
> they never looked into that.
>
> "When you have a pattern,'' Mr. Specter said, "you look for when the
> pattern started.''
>
> The senator said Mr. Goodell told him he has no more plans to investigate
> "Spygate.''
>
> "He has a fair-sized stone wall erected,'' Mr. Specter said.
>
> Said Mr. Goodell at his news conference Wednesday, "We're not following
> up; the senator said he wants to follow up."
>
> Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina
> yesterday, said:
>
> "Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome of
> the game? No.''
>
> Steelers spokesman Dave Lockett also said that club officials believe that
> the results of the game did not hinge on stolen signals.
>
> When new Steelers coach Mike Tomlin first heard about the incident with
> the New England cameraman in New York, he said at his weekly press
> conference, "Where there's smoke, there's fire.''
>
> To those who believe the NFL is trying to cover up and minimize "Spygate,"
> Mr. Goodell said Wednesday, "We are the ones who discovered the violation
> and disclosed it. If we were trying to cover something up, we wouldn't
> have taken the discipline we did and we wouldn't have brought the
> situation to light. We have been very clear about what happened. There was
> a violation of our policy."

Jufi · Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 4

"Sac D" wrote in message @comcast.com...
>I think the following will be appropriate:
>
> Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a $250,000 fine
> on the team and dock them a first-round draft pick...for EACH infraction
> that is documented in any way. That would include the four games
> against the Steelers, the Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any other suspect
> games that the League becomes aware of where the *'s cheated. Eventually
> they will get the point.

Proof is the key point, and proving a violation of rules is another. What's
illegal today was legal yesterday. My bet is that this goes nowhere, and
that Senator Comcastic is just a shill who's ignoring the serious business
of this country while performing shill duties. He ought to be ashamed.

Nuclear Waste · Joined: 23 Dec 2007 Posts: 50

"Jufi" wrote in message $wK4.67@trndny01...
>
> "Sac D" wrote in message
> @comcast.com...
>>I think the following will be appropriate:
>>
>> Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a
>> $250,000 fine on the team and dock them a first-round draft
>> pick...for EACH infraction that is documented in any way.
>> That would include the four games against the Steelers, the
>> Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any other suspect games that
>> the League becomes aware of where the *'s cheated.
>> Eventually they will get the point.
>
> Proof is the key point, and proving a violation of rules is
> another. What's illegal today was legal yesterday. My bet is
> that this goes nowhere, and that Senator Comcastic is just a
> shill who's ignoring the serious business of this country
> while performing shill duties. He ought to be ashamed.

Whatever minimal credibility you may have tried to exude has
been wiped out.

NW

The Shadow · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

Jufi wrote:
>
> "Sac D" wrote in message
> @comcast.com...
>> I think the following will be appropriate:
>>
>> Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a $250,000
>> fine on the team and dock them a first-round draft pick...for EACH
>> infraction that is documented in any way. That would include the
>> four games against the Steelers, the Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any
>> other suspect games that the League becomes aware of where the *'s
>> cheated. Eventually they will get the point.
>
> Proof is the key point, and proving a violation of rules is another.
> What's illegal today was legal yesterday. My bet is that this goes
> nowhere, and that Senator Comcastic is just a shill who's ignoring the
> serious business of this country while performing shill duties. He ought
> to be ashamed.

It was not legal to video tape the opposing teams practice even way back
when Belicheat was the coach of the Cleveland Browns.

He knew better then, when he did it and even now.

Do your best to be a spin doctor but the fact remains that the Pat*s got
caught cheating and you are still making a fool out of yourself by
trying in a vain attempt to troll another NFL team's football newsgroup.

Please do not stop, you provide proof why tigers do eat their young.

The Shadow · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

Nuclear Waste wrote:
> "Jufi" wrote in message
> $wK4.67@trndny01...
>> "Sac D" wrote in message
>> @comcast.com...
>>> I think the following will be appropriate:
>>>
>>> Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a
>>> $250,000 fine on the team and dock them a first-round draft
>>> pick...for EACH infraction that is documented in any way.
>>> That would include the four games against the Steelers, the
>>> Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any other suspect games that
>>> the League becomes aware of where the *'s cheated.
>>> Eventually they will get the point.
>> Proof is the key point, and proving a violation of rules is
>> another. What's illegal today was legal yesterday. My bet is
>> that this goes nowhere, and that Senator Comcastic is just a
>> shill who's ignoring the serious business of this country
>> while performing shill duties. He ought to be ashamed.
>
> Whatever minimal credibility you may have tried to exude has
> been wiped out.
>
> NW
>
>

Now when did he have credit here?

Nuclear Waste · Joined: 23 Dec 2007 Posts: 50

"The Shadow" wrote in message @bright.net...
> Nuclear Waste wrote:
>> "Jufi" wrote in message
>> $wK4.67@trndny01...
>>> "Sac D" wrote in message
>>> @comcast.com...
>>>> I think the following will be appropriate:
>>>>
>>>> Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick,
>>>> a $250,000 fine on the team and dock them a first-round
>>>> draft pick...for EACH infraction that is documented in
>>>> any way. That would include the four games against the
>>>> Steelers, the Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any other
>>>> suspect games that the League becomes aware of where the
>>>> *'s cheated. Eventually they will get the point.
>>> Proof is the key point, and proving a violation of rules
>>> is another. What's illegal today was legal yesterday. My
>>> bet is that this goes nowhere, and that Senator Comcastic
>>> is just a shill who's ignoring the serious business of
>>> this country while performing shill duties. He ought to be
>>> ashamed.
>>
>> Whatever minimal credibility you may have tried to exude
>> has been wiped out.
>>
>> NW
>>
>>
>
>
> Now when did he have credit here?

Note the careful use of the conditional in the subjunctive
mode... Sarcasm, English is wonderful for the multiple ways
you can use it!

NW

The Shadow · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

Nuclear Waste wrote:
> "The Shadow" wrote in message
> @bright.net...
>> Nuclear Waste wrote:
>>> "Jufi" wrote in message
>>> $wK4.67@trndny01...
>>>> "Sac D" wrote in message
>>>> @comcast.com...
>>>>> I think the following will be appropriate:
>>>>>
>>>>> Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick,
>>>>> a $250,000 fine on the team and dock them a first-round
>>>>> draft pick...for EACH infraction that is documented in
>>>>> any way. That would include the four games against the
>>>>> Steelers, the Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any other
>>>>> suspect games that the League becomes aware of where the
>>>>> *'s cheated. Eventually they will get the point.
>>>> Proof is the key point, and proving a violation of rules
>>>> is another. What's illegal today was legal yesterday. My
>>>> bet is that this goes nowhere, and that Senator Comcastic
>>>> is just a shill who's ignoring the serious business of
>>>> this country while performing shill duties. He ought to be
>>>> ashamed.
>>> Whatever minimal credibility you may have tried to exude
>>> has been wiped out.
>>>
>>> NW
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Now when did he have credit here?
>
> Note the careful use of the conditional in the subjunctive
> mode... Sarcasm, English is wonderful for the multiple ways
> you can use it!
>
> NW
>
>

Ah...I stand corrected.

Arkansan_Raider · Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 28

Don't be using that kind of foul language around me. I'm still trying to
figure out 2nd Declension articles and nouns.

---Jeff

Nuclear Waste wrote:

> Note the careful use of the conditional in the subjunctive
> mode...

Nuclear Waste · Joined: 23 Dec 2007 Posts: 50

Agreement with the antecedent is where you got lost, admit it!

"Arkansan_Raider" wrote in message $0o7.5787@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> Don't be using that kind of foul language around me. I'm
> still trying to figure out 2nd Declension articles and
> nouns.
>
> ---Jeff
>
> Nuclear Waste wrote:
>
>> Note the careful use of the conditional in the subjunctive
>> mode...

Arkansan_Raider · Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 28

Memorizing endings for Greek articles and nouns is about to friggin'
kill me.

And here I was tryin' to kill my high school English teacher for forcing
us to diagram sentences...

---Jeff

Nuclear Waste wrote:
> Agreement with the antecedent is where you got lost, admit it!
>
> "Arkansan_Raider" wrote in message
> $0o7.5787@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>> Don't be using that kind of foul language around me. I'm
>> still trying to figure out 2nd Declension articles and
>> nouns.
>>
>> ---Jeff
>>
>> Nuclear Waste wrote:
>>
>>> Note the careful use of the conditional in the subjunctive
>>> mode...
>
>

Jufi · Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 4

"Nuclear Waste" wrote in message
news:%CMtj.36922$yE1.24438@attbi_s21...
>

> Whatever minimal credibility you may have tried to exude has been wiped
> out.

Whatever. See where it goes, then decide.

Jufi · Joined: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 4

"The Shadow" wrote in message @bright.net...
> Jufi wrote:
>>
>> "Sac D" wrote in message
>> @comcast.com...
>>> I think the following will be appropriate:
>>>
>>> Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a $250,000 fine
>>> on the team and dock them a first-round draft pick...for EACH infraction
>>> that is documented in any way. That would include the four games
>>> against the Steelers, the Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any other suspect
>>> games that the League becomes aware of where the *'s cheated.
>>> Eventually they will get the point.
>>
>> Proof is the key point, and proving a violation of rules is another.
>> What's illegal today was legal yesterday. My bet is that this goes
>> nowhere, and that Senator Comcastic is just a shill who's ignoring the
>> serious business of this country while performing shill duties. He ought
>> to be ashamed.
>
>
>
>
> It was not legal to video tape the opposing teams practice even way back
> when Belicheat was the coach of the Cleveland Browns.

You have proof that Belichick taped another team's practice? Let's see it!

The Shadow · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

Jufi wrote:
>
> "The Shadow" wrote in message
> @bright.net...
>> Jufi wrote:
>>>
>>> "Sac D" wrote in message
>>> @comcast.com...
>>>> I think the following will be appropriate:
>>>>
>>>> Impose a $500,000 fine on Patriots coach Bill Belichick, a $250,000
>>>> fine on the team and dock them a first-round draft pick...for EACH
>>>> infraction that is documented in any way. That would include the
>>>> four games against the Steelers, the Super Bowl vs the Rams, and any
>>>> other suspect games that the League becomes aware of where the *'s
>>>> cheated. Eventually they will get the point.
>>>
>>> Proof is the key point, and proving a violation of rules is another.
>>> What's illegal today was legal yesterday. My bet is that this goes
>>> nowhere, and that Senator Comcastic is just a shill who's ignoring
>>> the serious business of this country while performing shill duties.
>>> He ought to be ashamed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It was not legal to video tape the opposing teams practice even way
>> back when Belicheat was the coach of the Cleveland Browns.
>
> You have proof that Belichick taped another team's practice? Let's see it!

I don't have it you silly boy.

Nuclear Waste · Joined: 23 Dec 2007 Posts: 50

And now you wish you had taken Latin and Greek in High School
when your brain was less clouded. I am betting you took
Spanish because there was this girl...

"Arkansan_Raider" wrote in message $Mh2.529@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Memorizing endings for Greek articles and nouns is about to
> friggin' kill me.
>
> And here I was tryin' to kill my high school English teacher
> for forcing us to diagram sentences...
>
> ---Jeff
>
>
> Nuclear Waste wrote:
>> Agreement with the antecedent is where you got lost, admit
>> it!
>>
>> "Arkansan_Raider" wrote in message
>> $0o7.5787@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>>> Don't be using that kind of foul language around me. I'm
>>> still trying to figure out 2nd Declension articles and
>>> nouns.
>>>
>>> ---Jeff
>>>
>>> Nuclear Waste wrote:
>>>
>>>> Note the careful use of the conditional in the
>>>> subjunctive mode...
>>

Belichick has been taping since 2000, Goodell tells Specter By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer February 13, 2008 WASHINGTON (AP) -- Bill Belichick has been illegally taping opponents' defensive signals since he became the New England Patriots' coach in 2000, according to Sen. Arlen Specter, who said NFL co

Patriots lost, finally you guys have something to celebrate Patriots fans were spoiled by winning all year, there really is parity in the NFL. Good luck to your team next year, hopefully they get back to winning Raiders football.

Patriots throw the Super Bowl for Arlen Specter Obviously the Patriots threw that game under duress from Senator Specter. No way the Giants could win on talent. The NFL is officially fixed.

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How Many Times How many times does it take before Meyer figured out that he was not going to be able to run the ball up the middle tonight? This is the worst called game (from a play standpoint) the Gators have had all season. Throw in the constant penalties and you hav