This Grudenite is still here

R. J. Salvi · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

I've decided against responding to some of the comments because they just
aren't worth responding to. I will however check out Pirate's "luv jam"
because he always does a great job on that stuff.

Robert J. Salvi, Ambiance Acoustics
http://www.ambianceacoustics.com
San Diego, CA USA
(858) 485-7514

Archived from group: alt>sports>football>pro>oak-raiders

Andy Richardson · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

R. J. Salvi wrote:
> I've decided against responding to some of the comments because they just
> aren't worth responding to. I will however check out Pirate's "luv jam"
> because he always does a great job on that stuff.
>
> Robert J. Salvi, Ambiance Acoustics
> http://www.ambianceacoustics.com
> San Diego, CA USA
> (858) 485-7514
>
>

RJ (and others), the so-called Grudenites are certainly still welcome
here. There's no doubt that a lot of the recent comments were meant to
tweak his supporters a little, but we're all still on the same side.

I'm somewhat glad that he is gone, and my emotions are frequently mixed
when he succeeds or fails. What I'm hoping for in the next Raider coach
is this:

Gruden's fighting instincts without his tendency to play tight and choke
with a lead.

Gruden's determination to run the ball without his tendency to let a
potential star (Porter) languish.

Gruden's leadership without, well, ok. A-ha! Without the shenanigans
his agent concocted about going to Notre Dame, etc. There!

I think the most telling thing is that Gruden's successor took the
Raiders to the Super Bowl, eclipsing anything Gruden accomplished with
the team, and yet we are still comparing future Raider coaches against
Jon Gruden.

Andy

Nuclear_Waste · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 11

"R. J. Salvi" wrote in message $hI1.6678@tornado.socal.rr.com...
> I've decided against responding to some of the comments because they
> just aren't worth responding to. I will however check out Pirate's
> "luv jam" because he always does a great job on that stuff.

I still wonder if losing due to an obvious coaching gaff does not
vindicate Al as much as Chuckie's winning would have damned him.
Aside from maniacal laghter you never really did answer that one last
night...

NW

R. J. Salvi · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Andy Richardson" wrote in message $nT.2453@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> R. J. Salvi wrote:
>> I've decided against responding to some of the comments because they just
>> aren't worth responding to. I will however check out Pirate's "luv jam"
>> because he always does a great job on that stuff.

> RJ (and others), the so-called Grudenites are certainly still welcome
> here. There's no doubt that a lot of the recent comments were meant to
> tweak his supporters a little, but we're all still on the same side.

Most of the anti-Gruden comments are based on emotion and that's why they're
not worth responding to. However, you make some interesting (and
unemotional) points below.

> I'm somewhat glad that he is gone, and my emotions are frequently mixed
> when he succeeds or fails. What I'm hoping for in the next Raider coach
> is this:
>
> Gruden's fighting instincts without his tendency to play tight and choke
> with a lead.

You know...I know that Gruden could opt to pull out all the stops like
Callahan did in '02 because it's Gruden's playbook. And at times --
especially with an arm as strong and accurate as Simms -- I'd love to see
him do it. But I know this guy is freakish about preparation and I sense
he's looking long term so as not to ruin his QBs confidence. So while I like
"Air Coryell" as much as the next guy, I have to think that Gru has a
purpose to what he's hoping to accomplish...and he's building a team and
winning on his way there.

> Gruden's determination to run the ball without his tendency to let a
> potential star (Porter) languish.

Porter shows flashes of brilliance and he'd more than likely start with any
other team, but to me, he's not a gamebreaker.

> Gruden's leadership without, well, ok. A-ha! Without the shenanigans his
> agent concocted about going to Notre Dame, etc. There!

Agreed...though I think that's a thing of the past.

> I think the most telling thing is that Gruden's successor took the Raiders
> to the Super Bowl, eclipsing anything Gruden accomplished with the team,
> and yet we are still comparing future Raider coaches against Jon Gruden.

This is a sticky proposition to subscribe to. If it wasn't a Gruden-coached
team that beat the Raiders in '02, ther'ed be alot more merit to that
ideology. Some of us "Grudenistas" (I like the sound of that:-) think that
Gruden built the team that Callahan took there. And if so, Gruden took a
Dungy-built team all the way. If OTOH one believes that it was Callahan that
deserves all the credit for the '02 SB appearance, then the same credit must
be extended to Gruden for TBs success in '02.

In '03, it was painfully obvious that Callhan lost control of the team and
we finished a dismal 4-12. In '05, we still finished 4-12, but the players
ironically seemed to back Turner. Maybe we're now getting closer to the
truth and perhaps it's Al that's losing the team.

Shadow just posted this morning an interview with Al in which he makes
reference to Gruden and Parcells. While praising them out of one side of his
mouth, he marginalizes them out of the other side. All the while he doesn't
have a clear cut answer as to why the Raiders have been underachieving. Al
says he wants a "fresh, new direction", yet he brought in Norv to rekindle
past ideas...the verticle game and power running game. Where have we heard
that before...

As bright as Al is about football, I think he's now too caught up in his own
ego to stop chasing his tail. And the more people question his role in light
of recent poor performances, the more belligerent he gets and adamantly
defends the Raiders as a top-tier franchise. Al's excuses for not winning:
lack of revenues, players not trying hard enough, a coach who can't get it
done, etc., point blame everywhere except on him. I see this as a lingering
problem and as long as Al adopts that posture, he'll consistently -- yet
subconsciously -- set the Raiders up for failure.

In Gruden, TB has an identity (it's "Gruden's team") and seemingly, a plan
(building for the future). I don't see those same dynamics in Oakland and
it's why I choose to use Gruden -- an ex-Raiders head coach -- as the
benchmark for future Raiders' head coaches.

--
Robert J. Salvi, Ambiance Acoustics
http://www.ambianceacoustics.com
San Diego, CA USA
(858) 485-7514

R. J. Salvi · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Nuclear_Waste" wrote in message $x96.102015@attbi_s72...
>
> "R. J. Salvi" wrote in message
> $hI1.6678@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>> I've decided against responding to some of the comments because they just
>> aren't worth responding to. I will however check out Pirate's "luv jam"
>> because he always does a great job on that stuff.
>
> I still wonder if losing due to an obvious coaching gaff does not
> vindicate Al as much as Chuckie's winning would have damned him. Aside
> from maniacal laghter you never really did answer that one last night...

I did answer it...no, it does not vindicate Al. But I agree, he should've
kicked the three-pointer. I wonder if Gruden was considering a 14 Blast...
Wink

--
Robert J. Salvi, Ambiance Acoustics
http://www.ambianceacoustics.com
San Diego, CA USA
(858) 485-7514

Nightcrawler · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

Word.

"Andy Richardson" wrote in message $nT.2453@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...

> RJ (and others), the so-called Grudenites are certainly still welcome here.
> There's no doubt that a lot of the recent comments were meant to tweak his
> supporters a little, but we're all still on the same side.
>
> I'm somewhat glad that he is gone, and my emotions are frequently mixed when he
> succeeds or fails. What I'm hoping for in the next Raider coach is this:
>
> Gruden's fighting instincts without his tendency to play tight and choke with a
> lead.
>
> Gruden's determination to run the ball without his tendency to let a potential star
> (Porter) languish.
>
> Gruden's leadership without, well, ok. A-ha! Without the shenanigans his agent
> concocted about going to Notre Dame, etc. There!
>
> I think the most telling thing is that Gruden's successor took the Raiders to the
> Super Bowl, eclipsing anything Gruden accomplished with the team, and yet we are
> still comparing future Raider coaches against Jon Gruden.
>
> Andy

The Shadow · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

"R. J. Salvi" wrote :

> IIRC, we did pass after Gannon got knocked out and Rison dropped one in
> the EZ. Starks also had 2 picks against us as well as the Pope and Dorsett
> comedy team trying to figure out how to tackle Sharpe.

Yeah the Raiders did but the team had that lame brain Bobby Hoying as the
backup.

*sigh*

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