Why no NBA team in St. Louis?

"Steve M · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

I have been curious about this for the past few years. St. Louis is
one of the top 10 metro areas in North America (well, maybe if you
don't include Mexico), but it is never mentioned when anybody talks
about moving NBA teams around or expanding. They support a football
team (after losing one to Phoenix), and have a great baseball
tradition (Cardinals) and a successful hockey franchise (Blues). And
basketball is big in the surrounding states and colleges.

So why no NBA team in St. Louis?

--
Steve M - unspam@houston.rrwax.com
remove wax for reply

Archived from group: alt>sports>basketball>nba>hou-rockets

David Emerling · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Steve M (remove wax for reply)" wrote in message@4ax.com...
> I have been curious about this for the past few years. St. Louis is
> one of the top 10 metro areas in North America (well, maybe if you
> don't include Mexico), but it is never mentioned when anybody talks
> about moving NBA teams around or expanding. They support a football
> team (after losing one to Phoenix), and have a great baseball
> tradition (Cardinals) and a successful hockey franchise (Blues). And
> basketball is big in the surrounding states and colleges.
>
> So why no NBA team in St. Louis?

Historically, St. Louisians are not big basketball fans.

Let's face it, this is a hockey and baseball town.

Whether the Blues or Cardinals have a good or bad season, the fans always
seem to show up ... like a bunch of loyal Cub fans.

As much as most in this newsgroup would hate to admit it ... St. Louis is a
fair weather football town. We love our team as long as it is successful.
The Rams won't always be this good. It goes in cycles. The moment they put
a few back to back stinker seasons together ... in typical St. Louis
fashion, interest will fade.

--
David Emerling - Memphis, TN
demerlinNOSPAM@midsouth.rr.com
If you want to email me - remove NOSPAM from the above address.

Terry · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

"Steve M (remove wax for reply)" wrote in message@4ax.com...
> I have been curious about this for the past few years. St. Louis is
> one of the top 10 metro areas in North America (well, maybe if you
> don't include Mexico), but it is never mentioned when anybody talks
> about moving NBA teams around or expanding. They support a football
> team (after losing one to Phoenix), and have a great baseball
> tradition (Cardinals) and a successful hockey franchise (Blues). And
> basketball is big in the surrounding states and colleges.
>
> So why no NBA team in St. Louis?

Speaking as an outsider.......does anyone actually play basketball?? Stick
with the real sports Wink

--
Terry
Bleed Blue - Go St Louis Wink

Terry Lomax · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 11

"David Emerling" wrote in message news:...
> "Steve M (remove wax for reply)" wrote in message
> @4ax.com...
> > I have been curious about this for the past few years. St. Louis is
> > one of the top 10 metro areas in North America (well, maybe if you

St. Louis dropped out of the top 10 sometime in the 1980s. Though the
metro area definitions are kinda screwy: the New York City area
includes parts of CT and PA, Chicago area goes all the way up into
Wisconsin, but St. Joseph isn't part of the Kansas City area even
though it's only a few miles from the city limits.

> > don't include Mexico), but it is never mentioned when anybody talks
> > about moving NBA teams around or expanding. They support a football
> > team (after losing one to Phoenix), and have a great baseball
> > tradition (Cardinals) and a successful hockey franchise (Blues). And
> > basketball is big in the surrounding states and colleges.
> >
> > So why no NBA team in St. Louis?

St. Louis had the Hawks and deservedly lost them. Racist fans didn't
want to support a league that was becoming increasingly black, and the
new Blues were competing for fan time/money.

> Historically, St. Louisians are not big basketball fans.
>
> Let's face it, this is a hockey and baseball town.
>
> Whether the Blues or Cardinals have a good or bad season, the fans always
> seem to show up ... like a bunch of loyal Cub fans.
>
> As much as most in this newsgroup would hate to admit it ... St. Louis is a
> fair weather football town. We love our team as long as it is successful.
> The Rams won't always be this good. It goes in cycles. The moment they put
> a few back to back stinker seasons together ... in typical St. Louis
> fashion, interest will fade.

The Rams have sold out every game despite 6-10, 5-11, and 4-12 seasons
in 1996-1998. If the season ticket holders had been fair weather fans
and tried to sell the tickets, they would have had no problem finding
eager buyers in the St. Louis area. There's a huge core of diehard
football fans in St. Louis. The fading interest you mention is only
among the rich fair-weather non-fans who exist in every city.

Fact: a _preseason_ Rams football game this summer got a higher rating
than an important regular season pennant race baseball game between
the baseball Cardinals and their arch rival the Cubs.

The Big Red sold over 90% of their seats through their years in St.
Louis despite a stinky owner and many mediocre to bad seasons. Even
after the Big Red moved to Arizona, televised Big Red games got much
higher ratings than any other football games, and they still got
better ratings than baseball Cardinal games. I remember in late 1990,
a game involving a terrible Cardinal team out of playoff contention
got a rating over 40 in the St. Louis area!

Blues fans since they left the Arena are largely rich. Most of the
blue collar Blues fans have lost interest in the team.

St. Louis doesn't have enough fan money/time to support NBA which
would compete with NHL. There may be some working class NBA fans here
who would root for the team but not be able to afford the tickets.

Another reason: the NBA has an obvious grudge against St. Louis,
forbidding the Grizzlies move to St. Louis but allowing the move to
Memphis.

St. Louis is a solid NFL, MLB, and NHL town and should be happy with
that IMHO.

The NFL might want to move a team from a city with bad support
(Atlanta, Jacksonville, or Carolina) to LA. The current 32 teams is a
good number, so if LA ever gets a team it should be a move rather than
expansion.

Jerry & Gayla Wilson · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

"Terry" wrote in message@news.iprimus.com.au...
> "Steve M (remove wax for reply)" wrote in
message
> @4ax.com...
> > I have been curious about this for the past few years. St. Louis is
> > one of the top 10 metro areas in North America (well, maybe if you
> > don't include Mexico), but it is never mentioned when anybody talks
> > about moving NBA teams around or expanding. They support a football
> > team (after losing one to Phoenix), and have a great baseball
> > tradition (Cardinals) and a successful hockey franchise (Blues). And
> > basketball is big in the surrounding states and colleges.
> >
> > So why no NBA team in St. Louis?
>
> Speaking as an outsider.......does anyone actually play basketball?? Stick
> with the real sports Wink

>
> --
> Terry
> Bleed Blue - Go St Louis Wink

>
> The real question is do you really want the Hawks back in St.louis?
They were the NBA team there years ago

James · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"David Emerling" wrote in message$oC5.20704@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com...
> As much as most in this newsgroup would hate to admit it ... St. Louis is
a
> fair weather football town. We love our team as long as it is successful.
> The Rams won't always be this good. It goes in cycles. The moment they
put
> a few back to back stinker seasons together ... in typical St. Louis
> fashion, interest will fade.
>

I guess I don't count since I don't live in StL. I've been a Rams fan since
they wore blue and white.
--
James

Jerry & Gayla Wilson · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

"James" wrote in message$pE3.50793@twister.socal.rr.com...
> "David Emerling" wrote in message
> $oC5.20704@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com...
> > As much as most in this newsgroup would hate to admit it ... St. Louis
is
> a
> > fair weather football town. We love our team as long as it is
successful.
> > The Rams won't always be this good. It goes in cycles. The moment they
> put
> > a few back to back stinker seasons together ... in typical St. Louis
> > fashion, interest will fade.
> >
>
> I guess I don't count since I don't live in StL. I've been a Rams fan
since
> they wore blue and white.
> --
> James
>
> James was the quarterback named Roman?

The Wilson

James · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Jerry & Gayla Wilson" wrote in message$0$936$ab461f88@news.shreve.net...
>
> "James" wrote in message
> $pE3.50793@twister.socal.rr.com...
> > "David Emerling" wrote in message
> > $oC5.20704@clmboh1-nws5.columbus.rr.com...
> > > As much as most in this newsgroup would hate to admit it ... St. Louis
> is
> > a
> > > fair weather football town. We love our team as long as it is
> successful.
> > > The Rams won't always be this good. It goes in cycles. The moment
they
> > put
> > > a few back to back stinker seasons together ... in typical St. Louis
> > > fashion, interest will fade.
> > >
> >
> > I guess I don't count since I don't live in StL. I've been a Rams fan
> since
> > they wore blue and white.
> > --
> > James
> >
> > James was the quarterback named Roman?
>
> The Wilson

I vaguely remember a big, tall, stiff guy Smile

Mind you, I'm not *that*
old, but I've been a Rams fan for as long as I can remember.
--
James

Eric Opperman · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

"Steve M (remove wax for reply)" wrote:
>
> I have been curious about this for the past few years. St. Louis is
> one of the top 10 metro areas in North America (well, maybe if you
> don't include Mexico), but it is never mentioned when anybody talks
> about moving NBA teams around or expanding. They support a football
> team (after losing one to Phoenix), and have a great baseball
> tradition (Cardinals) and a successful hockey franchise (Blues). And
> basketball is big in the surrounding states and colleges.
>
> So why no NBA team in St. Louis?

It's not one of the top 10 in the US, and it's not particularly close.
It's 18th with about 2.5 million, Houston is 10th with about 4.5
million. Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and Mexico City are also larger
than St. Louis, so we're talking more like 20th/21st. Most of the
cities around them do have four, but they don't support any three of
them as much as St. Louis supports the Rams, Cardinals, and
Blues...well, Denver does, I guess. The NBA is probably better served
by pursuing places like San Antonio, Sacramento, Portland, and Memphis,
where it can be the big dog.

--
Thanks for your time,

Eric Opperman
"I've got a job to do, and that's part of it. I've got a special feeling
for Sidney, and I will in 20 years--unless he blows up my house or
something." -- Baltimore Orioles manager Mike Hargrove on telling Sidney
Ponson he'd been traded to the Giants.

Jeremy Reaban · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

"David Emerling" wrote in message

> Historically, St. Louisians are not big basketball fans.
>
> Let's face it, this is a hockey and baseball town.
>
> Whether the Blues or Cardinals have a good or bad season, the fans
always
> seem to show up ... like a bunch of loyal Cub fans.
>
> As much as most in this newsgroup would hate to admit it ... St.
Louis is a
> fair weather football town. We love our team as long as it is
successful.
> The Rams won't always be this good. It goes in cycles. The moment
they put
> a few back to back stinker seasons together ... in typical St. Louis
> fashion, interest will fade.

I dunno. In my experience, it's true, just about every St. Louisan is
a baseball Cardinal fan (or close to it), there really aren't that
many Blues fans. Just a really dedicated group, mostly yuppies, mostly
women. Look at the TV ratings for the Blues - miniscule compared to
the Rams even in a bad season.

It's something like 30% for Rams games, 10% for Cardinals games, and
4% for Blues games. Non-Rams games also often beat the Cardinals games
on TV. Last year, the top rated non-Ram sunday football game beat the
top rated baseball Cardinal game.

The top rated shows in St. Louis, ever, were when the Rams made the
playoffs (even beating McGwire's home run). Even beating the final
episodes of Mash & Cheers.

While it's true just before the Cardinals left for Arizona, attendance
was starting to dwindle, when you compare football Cardinal attendance
to baseball Cardinal attendance, the football Cardinals did
surprisingly well despite their dismal nature. During the early 90s,
the baseball Cardinals were only drawing about 1.5 million or so. And
it had only been a few years since a WS appearance. The football
Cardinals never won a playoff game in their entire stay in St. Louis
(never even had a home playoff game).

Anyway, I thought St. Louis was actually near the top in the talks
whenver an NBA team wants to move, because the owners of the Blues are
incredibly rich (being a Wal-Mart heir) and want to buy an NBA team
the first chance they get.

Thomas · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

"Eric Opperman" wrote in message@midsouth.rr.com...
> "Steve M (remove wax for reply)" wrote:
> >
> > I have been curious about this for the past few years. St. Louis is
> > one of the top 10 metro areas in North America (well, maybe if you
> > don't include Mexico), but it is never mentioned when anybody talks
> > about moving NBA teams around or expanding. They support a football
> > team (after losing one to Phoenix), and have a great baseball
> > tradition (Cardinals) and a successful hockey franchise (Blues). And
> > basketball is big in the surrounding states and colleges.
> >
> > So why no NBA team in St. Louis?
>
> It's not one of the top 10 in the US, and it's not particularly close.
> It's 18th with about 2.5 million, Houston is 10th with about 4.5
> million. Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and Mexico City are also larger
> than St. Louis, so we're talking more like 20th/21st. Most of the
> cities around them do have four, but they don't support any three of
> them as much as St. Louis supports the Rams, Cardinals, and
> Blues...well, Denver does, I guess. The NBA is probably better served
> by pursuing places like San Antonio, Sacramento, Portland, and Memphis,
> where it can be the big dog.
>

As an FYI, I don't believe Vancouver is bigger than St. Louis. I believe
it's around the 2 million mark.

Tom

David Emerling · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Jeremy Reaban" wrote in message@corp.supernews.com...
> I dunno. In my experience, it's true, just about every St. Louisan is
> a baseball Cardinal fan (or close to it), there really aren't that
> many Blues fans. Just a really dedicated group, mostly yuppies, mostly
> women. Look at the TV ratings for the Blues - miniscule compared to
> the Rams even in a bad season.
>
> It's something like 30% for Rams games, 10% for Cardinals games, and
> 4% for Blues games. Non-Rams games also often beat the Cardinals games
> on TV. Last year, the top rated non-Ram sunday football game beat the
> top rated baseball Cardinal game.
>
> The top rated shows in St. Louis, ever, were when the Rams made the
> playoffs (even beating McGwire's home run). Even beating the final
> episodes of Mash & Cheers.
>
> While it's true just before the Cardinals left for Arizona, attendance
> was starting to dwindle, when you compare football Cardinal attendance
> to baseball Cardinal attendance, the football Cardinals did
> surprisingly well despite their dismal nature. During the early 90s,
> the baseball Cardinals were only drawing about 1.5 million or so. And
> it had only been a few years since a WS appearance. The football
> Cardinals never won a playoff game in their entire stay in St. Louis
> (never even had a home playoff game).
>
> Anyway, I thought St. Louis was actually near the top in the talks
> whenver an NBA team wants to move, because the owners of the Blues are
> incredibly rich (being a Wal-Mart heir) and want to buy an NBA team
> the first chance they get.

How many home football games are there in a season? 2 preseason games plus
8 regular season games? Maybe more if they make the playoffs and they win
home field advantage.

There over EIGHTY home baseball games in a season!

So, naturally, a home football game is going to generate more excitement
than a home baseball game. It's the nature of the sport. Seldom is a
regular season game in baseball a matter of life of death. Since the
football season consists of a mere 16 games ... each game IS often life or
death.

Imagine the Cardinals only played 8 regular season games in Busch Stadium.
It would be absolute pandemonium! It would make a home football game pale
in comparison.

There's no doubt about it - St. Louis *loves* their baseball. The Blues
have a loyal cult following that is by their side, win or lose. We are
football fans as long as the team is worth routing for. And we only
tolerate the sport of basketball.

--
David Emerling - Memphis, TN
demerlinNOSPAM@midsouth.rr.com
If you want to email me - remove NOSPAM from the above address.

Randy · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

"Jeremy Reaban" wrote in message@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "David Emerling" wrote in message
>
> > Historically, St. Louisians are not big basketball fans.
> >
> > Let's face it, this is a hockey and baseball town.
> >
> > Whether the Blues or Cardinals have a good or bad season, the fans
> always
> > seem to show up ... like a bunch of loyal Cub fans.
> >
> > As much as most in this newsgroup would hate to admit it ... St.
> Louis is a
> > fair weather football town. We love our team as long as it is
> successful.
> > The Rams won't always be this good. It goes in cycles. The moment
> they put
> > a few back to back stinker seasons together ... in typical St. Louis
> > fashion, interest will fade.
>
> I dunno. In my experience, it's true, just about every St. Louisan is
> a baseball Cardinal fan (or close to it), there really aren't that
> many Blues fans. Just a really dedicated group, mostly yuppies, mostly
> women. Look at the TV ratings for the Blues - miniscule compared to
> the Rams even in a bad season.
>
> It's something like 30% for Rams games, 10% for Cardinals games, and
> 4% for Blues games. Non-Rams games also often beat the Cardinals games
> on TV. Last year, the top rated non-Ram sunday football game beat the
> top rated baseball Cardinal game.
>
> The top rated shows in St. Louis, ever, were when the Rams made the
> playoffs (even beating McGwire's home run). Even beating the final
> episodes of Mash & Cheers.
>
> While it's true just before the Cardinals left for Arizona, attendance
> was starting to dwindle, when you compare football Cardinal attendance
> to baseball Cardinal attendance, the football Cardinals did
> surprisingly well despite their dismal nature. During the early 90s,
> the baseball Cardinals were only drawing about 1.5 million or so. And
> it had only been a few years since a WS appearance. The football
> Cardinals never won a playoff game in their entire stay in St. Louis
> (never even had a home playoff game).
>
> Anyway, I thought St. Louis was actually near the top in the talks
> whenver an NBA team wants to move, because the owners of the Blues are
> incredibly rich (being a Wal-Mart heir) and want to buy an NBA team
> the first chance they get.

You can buy our Portland Jailblazers....please Smile

--
To email, change nonsense to rsandland

Randy - Corvallis, Oregon

Chokenjoker · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

>Subject: Re: Why no NBA team in St. Louis?
>From: "Jeremy Reaban" jer@connectria.com

>there really aren't that
>many Blues fans. Just a really dedicated group, mostly yuppies, mostly
>women. Look at the TV ratings for

Dont forget the last remaining hoosiers
mostly south side ..but some made the
big move to St Charles St Peters and
God help us...O Fallon. Of course the
hoosiers are pretty much eliminated because of the insane pricing stucture
for HOCKEY. There are a bunch of
insane fanatics who would go to the
game .. if all they saw was the Zamboni
machine. Oh and the season is simply
not long enough bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

GO RAMS [only 18-1 team to lose a Super Bowl] NEW ENGLAND PATROITS

Best NFL team hi everyone, who is the best NFL team at the moment?

LA Team I'm gonna try to get something going here... With NFL owners seemingly against the prospect of expanding past the current format of 32 teams... Who's gonna relocate? Or does LA just not get a team for awhile? The rumor is that the Chargers, Saints, Jags &

Why You should Never Sign a FA From Another team That flame someone sent about T-Buck got me thinking... It seems to me that it's very difficult, maybe next to impossible, to come out ahead signing FAs from other teams. The other coach *knows* what the guy is worth. He is probably the world's leading ex

Who Are The Leaders On This Team? Do we have any? I don't see a single candidate! Think this is important? I do. Is this acceptable? What do you do about that?