Zorn the next Ray Handley?

Doctor Chen · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 42

Looks similar. Handley was a WR coach that got promoted to offensive
coordinator and all of a sudden that elevated to the head coaching job
despite zero experience calling any NFL plays.

That'll be fun. I certainly won't cry over the once proud Skins
empire all of a sudden becoming the laughstock of NFL.

Archived from group: alt>sports>football>pro>ny-giants

number6 · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 47

On Feb 12, 4:11 pm, Doctor Chen wrote:
> Looks similar. Handley was a WR coach that got promoted to offensive
> coordinator and all of a sudden that elevated to the head coaching job
> despite zero experience calling any NFL plays.
>

RB coach in what I recall ... I still remember how he created plays
for all the running backs (we had more than usual) ... to use their
talents and keep them involved ... had a special place in his heart
for the RBs ... turned out the opponents saw the substitution and knew
the play ...

Jeff Gersten · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 24

snumber6@aol.com (number6) wrote:

On Feb 12, 4:11 pm, Doctor Chen wrote:

>>Looks similar. Handley was a WR coach that
>>got promoted to offensive coordinator and all
>>of a sudden that elevated to the head
>>coaching job despite zero experience calling
>>any NFL plays.

>RB coach in what I recall ... I still remember
>how he created plays for all the running backs
>(we had more than usual) ... to use their
>talents and keep them involved ... had a
>special place in his heart for the RBs ... turned
>out the opponents saw the substitution and
>knew the play ...

Yes, Handley was the running backs's coach. The wide receivers' coach
was some guy named Coughlin. Whatever happened to him?

number6 · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 47

On Feb 14, 2:23 pm, "IommiRULES" wrote:

> Here is my grades for Giants coaches since i've been a fan, which goes back
> to the Tarkington-Ron Johnson days.
>
> Alex Webster C-
> Bill Arnsparger F
> John Mcvay F
> Ray Perkins C+
> Bill Parcells A
> He Whose Name is Never Mentioned F-
> Dan Reeves C
> Jim Fassel C+
> Tom Coughlin B

Hats N Bats · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 15

On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:19:32 -0500, JeffGersten@webtv.net (Jeff
Gersten) wrote:

>snumber6@aol.com (number6) wrote:
>
>On Feb 12, 4:11 pm, Doctor Chen wrote:
>
>>>Looks similar. Handley was a WR coach that
>>>got promoted to offensive coordinator and all
>>>of a sudden that elevated to the head
>>>coaching job despite zero experience calling
>>>any NFL plays.
>
>>RB coach in what I recall ... I still remember
>>how he created plays for all the running backs
>>(we had more than usual) ... to use their
>>talents and keep them involved ... had a
>>special place in his heart for the RBs ... turned
>>out the opponents saw the substitution and
>>knew the play ...
>
>Yes, Handley was the running backs's coach. The wide receivers' coach
>was some guy named Coughlin. Whatever happened to him?

Shhh, don't tell Chen that Coughlin had a previous run with the the
"Jints".

Hats N Bats

--
Remove the 5s to e-mail

NY Giants 2007 Super Bowl Champions!

DoctorElefant · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 83

On Feb 25, 7:36 pm, Batdog wrote:

> I thought Fassel wasn't very impressive, I think John Fox's defense
> carried those Giants teams to victory.

Do you take any credit away from Coughlin because Spagnuolo's defense
was so good? I don't.

> Plus the Giants were pretty
> sloppy uynder Fassel and we collapsed totally against the 49ers in 02.

The Giants had their sloppy moments under Coughlin too, like the
Vikings game. In fact, it was just a couple months ago that some
people had Coughlin's career on a virtual life-support machine. If you
don't go all the way, they're just not gonna be satisfied with the
coach.

> The 2003 season was an abomination...though it sowed the seeds for our
> Super Bowl championship by getting us a high draft pick to trade for
> Eli.

True. Something good came out of that awful year.

--------------------------------------------------
DocE

"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
--------------------------------------------------

Batdog · Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Posts: 2

On Feb 25, 9:06 pm, DoctorElefant wrote:
> On Feb 25, 7:36 pm, Batdog wrote:
>
> > I thought Fassel wasn't very impressive, I think John Fox's defense
> > carried those Giants teams to victory.
>
> Do you take any credit away from Coughlin because Spagnuolo's defense
> was so good? I don't.

I don't know maybe the afterglow on the Super Bowl is affecting me, it
seems like we were always up & down with Fassel...one year a playoff
team and one year not. I probably feel a lot better about him if we
beat the Ravens in 2000 though...

> The Giants had their sloppy moments under Coughlin too, like the
> Vikings game. In fact, it was just a couple months ago that some
> people had Coughlin's career on a virtual life-support machine. If you
> don't go all the way, they're just not gonna be satisfied with the
> coach.

True...especially in NY... thank god we won then.

>
> > The 2003 season was an abomination...though it sowed the seeds for our
> > Super Bowl championship by getting us a high draft pick to trade for
> > Eli.
>
> True. Something good came out of that awful year.

Well we did beat the Jets as well that year...that's another positive
since I think that was our last win of that season.

Doctor Chen · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 42

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:06:33 -0800 (PST), DoctorElefant
wrote:

>On Feb 25, 7:36 pm, Batdog wrote:
>
>> I thought Fassel wasn't very impressive, I think John Fox's defense
>> carried those Giants teams to victory.
>
>Do you take any credit away from Coughlin because Spagnuolo's defense
>was so good? I don't.

During Fassel-era the defense never win games the way Coughlin-era
does. Look at all of Fassel's playoff loses, they got rough up on D.
Spags D was able to limit Cowboys, Packers, and Pats. I mean 17
points won't win you much games against anybody least the Pats.

I don't know why people tend to over-glorify Fox. He was good, but
not damn impressive like Spags did for us.

>> Plus the Giants were pretty
>> sloppy uynder Fassel and we collapsed totally against the 49ers in 02.
>
>The Giants had their sloppy moments under Coughlin too, like the
>Vikings game. In fact, it was just a couple months ago that some
>people had Coughlin's career on a virtual life-support machine. If you
>don't go all the way, they're just not gonna be satisfied with the
>coach.

Coughlin's team was the top 3 team penalized year in and year out
before the SB year. So much for disciplinarian.

>> The 2003 season was an abomination...though it sowed the seeds for our
>> Super Bowl championship by getting us a high draft pick to trade for
>> Eli.
>
>True. Something good came out of that awful year.

When you have an awful year, and NFL has no lottery, you BETTER get
something good out of it... Smile

With the #5 overall pick the Giants take Cedric Jones!!!

>--------------------------------------------------
>DocE
>
>
>"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
>--------------------------------------------------

DoctorElefant · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 83

On Feb 26, 8:38 am, Doctor Chen wrote:

> I don't know why people tend to over-glorify Fox. He was good, but
> not damn impressive like Spags did for us.

And people like to say how good Fox was to take credit away from
Fassel, yet Fassel hired the guy. No credit for that?

--------------------------------------------------
DocE

"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
--------------------------------------------------

Doctor Chen · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 42

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:58:18 -0800 (PST), DoctorElefant
wrote:

>On Feb 26, 8:38 am, Doctor Chen wrote:
>
>> I don't know why people tend to over-glorify Fox. He was good, but
>> not damn impressive like Spags did for us.
>
>And people like to say how good Fox was to take credit away from
>Fassel, yet Fassel hired the guy. No credit for that?
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>DocE
>
>
>"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
>--------------------------------------------------

I really think most fans here (yes even the "realistic" or
"knowledgeable" ones) are brain-washed that they are really convicted
that Fassel is a dud, and that the only reason he has any success are
because he has Payton for offense and Fox for defense (nevermind that
Payton was nothing but a clip-board holder for Fassel on offense till
late.)

Of course already you and some here have stated that:

1) All of Giants "blow-ups" are due to defensive collapses during
Fassel era.

2) When Payton was handed the OC job he totally blew it until Fassel
"retaken" the role back.

3) Fassel's bad years are due more to injuries to critical starters
than his inabiilty to coach.

4) Disciple problem is not just a Fassel issue, Coughlin couldn't get
the Giants to be less-penalized.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of hating Fassel.

Jeff Gersten · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 24

phdchen@google.com (Doctor Chen) wrote:

>But hey, don't let facts get in the way of hating
>Fassel.

And the reason no other team has hired him as a head coach is ??????

Are all of the other NFL teams ignorant of "the facts"? There have been
both experienced coaches (Denny Green for example) and totally
inexperienced coaches (joim Zorn for example) since Fassel has been out
looking for another professional head coaching position.

Fritz · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 17

"Jeff Gersten" wrote in message @storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
phdchen@google.com (Doctor Chen) wrote:

>But hey, don't let facts get in the way of hating
>Fassel.

And the reason no other team has hired him as a head coach is ??????

Are all of the other NFL teams ignorant of "the facts"? There have been
both experienced coaches (Denny Green for example) and totally
inexperienced coaches (joim Zorn for example) since Fassel has been out
looking for another professional head coaching position.

Jeff, I was never a Fassel fan and I have the same views you do. He was an
average coach IMO who was fortunate to inherit a bunch of young talent on
defense that carried him for years until he finally put together a decent
offense. He presided over 2 of the worst playoff meltdowns in NFL history
and his teams often found stupid ways to lose games due to consistently poor
special teams and bad clock management. There are obviously reasons why no
one in the NFL has touched him; not even as an OC.

DoctorElefant · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 83

On Feb 27, 2:39 pm, JeffGers...@webtv.net (Jeff Gersten) wrote:
> phdc...@google.com (Doctor Chen) wrote:
> >But hey, don't let facts get in the way of hating
> >Fassel.
>
> And the reason no other team has hired him as a head coach is ??????

They don't know what they're doing. The Cards, Bills, Chiefs, Rams,
and Raiders all interviewed him and then hired somebody worse. In
fact, besides the Bills who have improved recently, that whole group
is still lousy.

Now, the Redskins came the closest to hiring him a few years ago, but
then Joe Gibbs made his comeback. I can't blame them for hiring Gibbs
over Fassel.

This year, the Redskins were set to hire Fassel again, but went with
Zorn because the fans didn't like them hiring a retread. I'm actually
happy about that since they're in our division.

> Are all of the other NFL teams ignorant of "the facts"?

The ones looking for coaches? Yes. Just look at their records.

> There have been
> both experienced coaches (Denny Green for example)

How did that work out?

> and totally
> inexperienced coaches (joim Zorn for example) since Fassel has been out
> looking for another professional head coaching position.

The trend right now is to pick an inexperienced coach. All the
coaching vacancies this year went to unknown quantities. GMs appear to
be afraid of hiring coaches who have been fired. They seem to ingnore
that Coughlin and Belichick were also fired before they became Super
Bowl rivals.

--------------------------------------------------
DocE

"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
--------------------------------------------------

DoctorElefant · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 83

On Feb 27, 5:37 pm, "Fritz" wrote:

> Jeff, I was never a Fassel fan and I have the same views you do. He was an
> average coach IMO who was fortunate to inherit a bunch of young talent on
> defense that carried him for years until he finally put together a decent
> offense. He presided over 2 of the worst playoff meltdowns in NFL history
> and his teams often found stupid ways to lose games due to consistently poor
> special teams and bad clock management. There are obviously reasons why no
> one in the NFL has touched him; not even as an OC.

Wake me up when one of the teams who passed over Fassel wins some
games.

--------------------------------------------------
DocE

"The future ain't what it used to be." -Yogi Berra
--------------------------------------------------

number6 · Joined: 07 Aug 2007 Posts: 47

On Feb 27, 6:46 pm, DoctorElefant wrote:

>
> > Are all of the other NFL teams ignorant of "the facts"?
>
> The ones looking for coaches? Yes. Just look at their records.

Fassel has some sort of problem that stops teams from hiring a solid
head coach with a rather good track record ... and that has nothing to
do with his coaching ability ... an attitude that comes across ?? Some
rumors circulating among owners ??? He farts a lot ???
He was a good coach for us but Camp Jimmy created a lot of out of
control dumbness near the end ... and it was time for him to leave ...
He's smart enough not to make those mistakes again ...
I'm thrilled Zorn and not Fassel is coaching Washington ... Zorn's
been a tough competitor ... but going from being responsible to 3
people to more than 53 ... and the press ... and an idiot owner ... is
not going to be easy ...

Zorn is the guy JLC reports that it's Zorn. I'm sitting here just dumbfounded. We gave up Gregg Williams so that JIM ZORN could be coach? We didn't jump an offer to Spags so that JIM ZORN could be coach? Russ Grimm didn't deserve even an interview, but JIM ZORN does?

Jim Zorn: What Do You Think?! The Redskins affiliate in Washington, DC, BIG 100.3 arleady has a poll up on their website asking what you think about Jim Zorn. I HATE THIS MOVE! Anyway, if you want to cast your vote, check out: ~ A Disgruntled

Zorn? First, it's official. According to the Redskins' web site, Jim Zorn is the new head coach. Second, it didn't take long for wikipedia to absorb the news: The first sentence reads as follows: "James Arthur "Jim" Zorn

Jim Zorn gets a promotion -- Julie

I don't mind Jim Zorn That's because I don't know him. Andy Reid I think was once promoted from QB coach to Head Coach, too. The problem in Washington will never be its coach. Or its players. The problem starts before that. And the problem I see with Redskin fans is that the