Rush Limbaugh resigns from ESPN Gameday

Mpoconnor7 · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 129

Comments?

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".

Archived from group: rec>sport>football>pro

Bob B Ballz · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

In article ,
mpoconnor7@aol.comnojunk (Mpoconnor7) wrote:

> Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

To quote Joe Louis: "If you has to tell 'em what you is...you ain't."

Tarkus · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 167

On 02 Oct 2003 11:00:26 GMT, Mpoconnor7 wrote:

> Comments?

As soon as I stop cheering and laughing, I'll offer some feedback.
--
"Kansas City is playing against the Incredible Hulk, better known as
David Boston. 6'2, 240 and the guy is still passing the drug tests?
You tell me." - Deion Sanders, CBS

Now playing: the radio

Mpoconnor7 · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 129

I didn't have time to comment on this as I had some errands to run, but I think
the anti-Rush crowd has been waiting in vain for him to say something that they
could seize upon and use to get him kicked off that show. And I'm not a fan of
his radio show in the first place; I haven't ever listened to it for more than
about two minutes.

If Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin had made the same exact comment, nobody would
have lost their jobs and there would be no picketing and protests, and they
would have wound up in Rudy Martzke USA Today TV Sports column under the
"strongest comments" category. I seriously doubt we would have seen Al
Sharpton calling for Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin to be fired from ESPN for
making that comment. It's good to see that double standards are alive and well
in this country.

I think there was some truth in what Rush said. If McNabb had managed to have
won one of the two NFC Championship games that his team lost in 2001 and 2002,
and had gotten the Eagles to the Super Bowl, we would have been inundated with
a plethora of stories about his skin color, about how we have a black QB in the
Super Bowl, and we would have to hear about Doug Williams at every opportunity.

I personally don't think McNabb is as good as everybody says he is; his record
over the 2001-2002 seasons has a lot to do with the strong defenses he had in
Philly. He is a very good QB who has benefitted from having a terrific defense
behind him.

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".

James M. Gibson · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

mpoconnor7@aol.comnojunk (Mpoconnor7) wrote in@mb-m27.aol.com:

> I didn't have time to comment on this as I had some errands to run,
> but I think the anti-Rush crowd has been waiting in vain for him to
> say something that they could seize upon and use to get him kicked
> off that show. And I'm not a fan of his radio show in the first
> place; I haven't ever listened to it for more than about two
> minutes.
>
> If Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin had made the same exact comment,
> nobody would have lost their jobs and there would be no picketing
> and protests, and they would have wound up in Rudy Martzke USA Today
> TV Sports column under the "strongest comments" category. I
> seriously doubt we would have seen Al Sharpton calling for Tom
> Jackson or Michael Irvin to be fired from ESPN for making that
> comment. It's good to see that double standards are alive and well
> in this country.

You just made up an entire hypothetical and then used said
hypothetical to prove there was a double standard. I don't think you
can let that fly. You can't prove things by making up hypotheticals.

>
> I think there was some truth in what Rush said. If McNabb had
> managed to have won one of the two NFC Championship games that his
> team lost in 2001 and 2002, and had gotten the Eagles to the Super
> Bowl, we would have been inundated with a plethora of stories about
> his skin color, about how we have a black QB in the Super Bowl, and
> we would have to hear about Doug Williams at every opportunity.

I seriously doubt it. We watch NFL shows all the time now talk about
Vick, McNabb, McNair, and Brooks without any reference to their race.
It's not 1987 any more. I think the black QB to Super Bowl would be a
non-story.

--
“Wash” instead of “dry” to reply and replace zero with 0.

Mpoconnor7 · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 129

>> I didn't have time to comment on this as I had some errands to run,
>> but I think the anti-Rush crowd has been waiting in vain for him to
>> say something that they could seize upon and use to get him kicked
>> off that show. And I'm not a fan of his radio show in the first
>> place; I haven't ever listened to it for more than about two
>> minutes.
>>
>> If Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin had made the same exact comment,
>> nobody would have lost their jobs and there would be no picketing
>> and protests, and they would have wound up in Rudy Martzke USA Today
>> TV Sports column under the "strongest comments" category. I
>> seriously doubt we would have seen Al Sharpton calling for Tom
>> Jackson or Michael Irvin to be fired from ESPN for making that
>> comment. It's good to see that double standards are alive and well
>> in this country.
>
>You just made up an entire hypothetical and then used said
>hypothetical to prove there was a double standard. I don't think you
>can let that fly. You can't prove things by making up hypotheticals.
>

Here is an example of two athletes saying horrible things about race: in 1993
or so Charles Barkley made a comment to a reporter that he "hated white people"
(his words), and of course we all know the story of Braves Pitcher John Rocker
and his infamous SI interview a couple years back. Was Barkley fined or
disciplined by the NBA for making such an offensive comment to a reporter? Was
Barkley forced by his sport to have to go see a psychiatrist like MLB forced
Rocker to do? Was Barkley's racist statement the lead story on Sportscenter
that evening, accompanied by interviews with prominent white people talking
about how they were just so offended by what he said? Did the national media
turn on Barkley like they did Rocker? Did the Anti-Defamation League or people
like Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson take offense to Barkley's comments; did they
go after the NBA to discipline him like they went after Baseball following
Rocker's comments? In all the cases I've listed, the answer is no. Barkley
got off scot free for making such a comment based on his color. Of course it
was mentioned in the media the next day, but instead of taking offense to it,
the media simply laughed it off with a collective "That Charles Barkley is such
a contoversial guy" and left it at that.

How about that infamous sermon that Rev. Reggie White delivered to a
congregation a few years back that stereotyped every ethnic group including
whites, blacks, gays, orientals and mexicans to name a few; a tape of it got
out to the media and I have a copy of it somewhere in my video collection.
IIRC, he mentioned that Mexicans are good at fitting 35 people in a single
house, and that orientals were good at putting a TV on a watch or something
like that. Was he disciplined by the NFL for making such a series of offensive
comments? Nope.

And how about former Detroit Piston Isiah Thomas, who once made a comment to a
reporter that Larry Bird gets a lot of attention for being a great basketball
player simply because of his skin color; IIRC his exact comment was that "if
Larry Bird were black, he'd be just another NBA player". I don't seem to
remember any fines levied on Thomas for that statement, but you can bet it had
something to do with his recent dismissal as Indiana Pacers coach when Larry
Bird suddenly became his boss.

And how about the comments made this past season by Cub Manager Dusty Baker,
who said that Latins and Blacks are better suited to playing in warmer
temperatures than are white people, and that black slaves were brought to this
country for that very reason. Was he censored by Baseball for that racist
statement? He was not. There may be some truth in Baker's comments, just as
there was truth in what Jimmy The Greek told a reporter back in the late 80's
that slavemasters would breed their strongest male and female slaves to breed
stronger children, and this is why in some sports blacks tend to make better
athletes than whites. But because Jimmy the Greek was a white man, he was
lambasted in the media and his career in front of the camera was finished. If
a white manager had made the comment that Baker made, how many hours do you
think he would have remained the manager of his team before he was fired?

Do you really think that if some white NBA player told a reporter that Shaq
gets all the media attention for being a great player because he is black, that
such a statement would not quickly result in a fine and suspension, probably a
trade to a different team, and a public retraction of said comments?

Howard Cosell's career in broadcasting was ruined for calling a black football
player a "little monkey", even though I've seen Cosell use that term many times
to white players who were fast and had good moves. Cosell probably did more
than any other white person (with the possible exception of Branch Rickey) to
advance the cause of the black athlete in America, but he was branded a racist
and was suddenly personna non grata on television.

I can't think of a single case of a black athlete or black broadcaster ever
being suspended, fired, or fined (or the subject of pickets or protests) for
making a racist comment. Not one.

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".

Tarkus · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 167

On 02 Oct 2003 22:10:52 GMT, Mpoconnor7 wrote:

> If Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin had made the same exact comment, nobody would
> have lost their jobs and there would be no picketing and protests, and they
> would have wound up in Rudy Martzke USA Today TV Sports column under the
> "strongest comments" category. I seriously doubt we would have seen Al
> Sharpton calling for Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin to be fired from ESPN for
> making that comment. It's good to see that double standards are alive and well
> in this country.

Of course there is. Everyday life is a double standard for blacks and
whites. Jackson and Irvin are part of the same group who have been
oppressed throughout history. Rush is part of the group that has done
the oppressing. So of course there is going to be a double standard
about who can say what about the oppressed group.

> I think there was some truth in what Rush said. If McNabb had managed to have
> won one of the two NFC Championship games that his team lost in 2001 and 2002,
> and had gotten the Eagles to the Super Bowl, we would have been inundated with
> a plethora of stories about his skin color, about how we have a black QB in the
> Super Bowl, and we would have to hear about Doug Williams at every opportunity.

Guess you missed McNair's appearance in the Super Bowl, too.

As someone else noted, black QBs (even in the Super Bowl) are no big deal
anymore. The whole media conspiracy theory doesn't make any sense.
--
"It was a brain transplant. I got a sportswriter's brain so I could be
sure I had one that hadn't been used." - Norm Van Brocklin following
brain surgery

Now playing: the radio

James M. Gibson · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 4

mpoconnor7@aol.comnojunk (Mpoconnor7) wrote in@mb-m01.aol.com:

> How about that infamous sermon that Rev. Reggie White delivered to a
> congregation a few years back that stereotyped every ethnic group
> including whites, blacks, gays, orientals and mexicans to name a
> few; a tape of it got out to the media and I have a copy of it
> somewhere in my video collection. IIRC, he mentioned that Mexicans
> are good at fitting 35 people in a single house, and that orientals
> were good at putting a TV on a watch or something like that. Was he
> disciplined by the NFL for making such a series of offensive
> comments? Nope.

Reggie White certainly caught a lot of media flak for that one. Is it a
double standard that he was not suspended by the NFL while Rocker was by
baseball? No, those are two separate entities. So you can't really say
for sure what would have happened if they worked for the same league.

For the record, I thought Rocker deserved the furor he got, but he should
not have been suspended by baseball. White also deserved the furor he
got, and he got a lot of it. Lots of people called for White to
apologize. It's not like it was just ignored.

--
“Wash” instead of “dry” to reply and replace zero with 0.

Jerry Donovan · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Mpoconnor7" wrote in message@mb-m27.aol.com...
> I didn't have time to comment on this as I had some errands to run, but I
think
> the anti-Rush crowd has been waiting in vain for him to say something that
they
> could seize upon and use to get him kicked off that show. And I'm not a
fan of
> his radio show in the first place; I haven't ever listened to it for more
than
> about two minutes.
>
> If Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin had made the same exact comment, nobody
would
> have lost their jobs and there would be no picketing and protests, and
they
> would have wound up in Rudy Martzke USA Today TV Sports column under the
> "strongest comments" category. I seriously doubt we would have seen Al
> Sharpton calling for Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin to be fired from ESPN
for
> making that comment. It's good to see that double standards are alive and
well
> in this country.
>
> I think there was some truth in what Rush said. If McNabb had managed to
have
> won one of the two NFC Championship games that his team lost in 2001 and
2002,
> and had gotten the Eagles to the Super Bowl, we would have been inundated
with
> a plethora of stories about his skin color, about how we have a black QB
in the
> Super Bowl, and we would have to hear about Doug Williams at every
opportunity.
>
> I personally don't think McNabb is as good as everybody says he is; his
record
> over the 2001-2002 seasons has a lot to do with the strong defenses he had
in
> Philly. He is a very good QB who has benefitted from having a terrific
defense
> behind him.
>
> Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man
>
> "The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
> proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
> James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".

I also looked at McNabb's stats and determined that in his best couple
years he is borderline as a top QB in the league. The team did well with
and without him last year, so he does benefit from the team he is on.
One can only imagine how he might do or be rated if he was on one of
the weakest teams in the league. And at the point when Rush made his
comments, the Eagles were 0-2 and totally humiliated in their first two
games offensively. His QB rating for the young season was in the low 40s.
Just like he benefited from the team when it did well, probably these
poor showings also reflects the team offensively and not just him either.
A QB isn't as good as his best games or seasons, nor as bad as his
worst ones.

As for the comments about race being the reason for his being overrated
is difficult to tell. The league does desire that blacks do well evidenced
by their policies. The fine for the Lions recruiting of a head coach and
the
Minority Coaching Fellowship Program(*) are examples of their efforts in
dealing with race. These aren't necessarily bad, but they do show the
desires of the league in the areas of race. Tieing all this to the way
McNabb is viewed might be a stretched though.

On the other hand, the management of the Eagles seem to think he is
a top QB based on what they are willing to pay him. I don't think that is
racially motivated at all. They just want him to stay around and succeed.

Jerry

(*) http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6518780

Stan-Fan · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 44

Rush Limbaugh spends 8-straight years on the television spewing hate,
and moronic lies about the Clinton Administration, and nobody makes a
fuss. He touches the golden sport of America, the NFL, and it creates a
stir. All he said is that Donavan McNabb is more a media creation as a
talented QB, because of his color, than he is a talented athlete. That
is so stupid, he would be branded an idiot in any alt.discuss.sports
group if he posted it up like we do.

But, since Limbaugh already has been branded an idiot, and blowhard, no
sense worrying about it. Resign? Too good for him. They should have
fired him outright, just on his stupid comments because he knows nothing
about football. Best QB in the NFL happens to be Michael Vick of the
Atlanta Falcons, who just happens to be black, and he hasn't
accomplished anything yet, but if Atlanta put him on the trade block,
every team in the league would go for him, same with McNabb.

It is a non-story, blacks at QB now. Doug Williams put it to rest years
ago. The media over the years has created a few stars who didn't deserve
the attention (Darryl Strawberry for one), but McNabb, Pro-Bowl QB of
the Eagles, a creation of the media, nuts. Limbaugh is as usual, an
idiot.

santolina · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 26

Mpoconnor7 wrote in message@mb-m27.aol.com...
> I didn't have time to comment on this as I had some errands to run, but I
think
> the anti-Rush crowd has been waiting in vain for him to say something that
they
> could seize upon and use to get him kicked off that show. And I'm not a
fan of
> his radio show in the first place; I haven't ever listened to it for more
than
> about two minutes.
>
> If Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin had made the same exact comment,

Has there ever been a case of a prominent football analyst saying that John
Elway or Joe Montana are overrated because they're white? I don't know, I'm
asking.

> nobody would
> have lost their jobs and there would be no picketing and protests, and
they
> would have wound up in Rudy Martzke USA Today TV Sports column under the
> "strongest comments" category. I seriously doubt we would have seen Al
> Sharpton calling for Tom Jackson or Michael Irvin to be fired from ESPN
for
> making that comment. It's good to see that double standards are alive and
well
> in this country.
>
> I think there was some truth in what Rush said. If McNabb had managed to
have
> won one of the two NFC Championship games that his team lost in 2001 and
2002,
> and had gotten the Eagles to the Super Bowl, we would have been inundated
with
> a plethora of stories about his skin color, about how we have a black QB
in the
> Super Bowl, and we would have to hear about Doug Williams at every
opportunity.
>

Maybe, but we're talking about two separate issues. One is whether McNabb
is overrated, and I myself would even agree with that to some degree. The
second, and most important, issue is that Limbaugh connected McNabb's
alleged overratedness to his race. If there is even the tiniest scintilla
of evidence for this conjecture I'm willing to hear it.

> I personally don't think McNabb is as good as everybody says he is; his
record
> over the 2001-2002 seasons has a lot to do with the strong defenses he had
in
> Philly. He is a very good QB who has benefitted from having a terrific
defense
> behind him.
>

True, but not the point. Limbaugh could have left it right there and
escaped unscathed, but he chose to introduce McNabb's race, and his own
fantasies about liberal conspiracies in the media, into the discussion.

Tarkus · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 167

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:12:47 -0600, Jerry Donovan wrote:

> I also looked at McNabb's stats and determined that in his best couple
> years he is borderline as a top QB in the league. The team did well with
> and without him last year, so he does benefit from the team he is on.
> One can only imagine how he might do or be rated if he was on one of
> the weakest teams in the league. And at the point when Rush made his

We can only imagine how well he might do with some weapons around him,
also. Put him in the Colts' system and see how well he does. The Eagles
are not exactly an offensive juggernaut, with or without McNabb.

> comments, the Eagles were 0-2 and totally humiliated in their first two
> games offensively. His QB rating for the young season was in the low 40s.
> Just like he benefited from the team when it did well, probably these
> poor showings also reflects the team offensively and not just him either.

And I don't recall the media having any problems pointing out his poor
play early this year.
--
"He taught me a lot about playing running back. He taught me a lot
about mental toughness. He's not the biggest guy, but he goes after
people like he is. He's a headhunter."
- Ricky Williams on Priest Holmes

Now playing: the radio

Mpoconnor7 · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 129

>> How about that infamous sermon that Rev. Reggie White delivered to a
>> congregation a few years back that stereotyped every ethnic group
>> including whites, blacks, gays, orientals and mexicans to name a
>> few; a tape of it got out to the media and I have a copy of it
>> somewhere in my video collection. IIRC, he mentioned that Mexicans
>> are good at fitting 35 people in a single house, and that orientals
>> were good at putting a TV on a watch or something like that. Was he
>> disciplined by the NFL for making such a series of offensive
>> comments? Nope.
>
>
>Reggie White certainly caught a lot of media flak for that one. Is it a
>double standard that he was not suspended by the NFL while Rocker was by
>baseball? No, those are two separate entities. So you can't really say
>for sure what would have happened if they worked for the same league.
>
>For the record, I thought Rocker deserved the furor he got, but he should
>not have been suspended by baseball. White also deserved the furor he
>got, and he got a lot of it. Lots of people called for White to
>apologize. It's not like it was just ignored.

It was ignored by Paul Tagliabue. I'm speaking hypothetically once again, but
I truly believe that sports commissioners are terrified at the prospect of
fining or suspending a minority player for making racist comments about whites
or any other race for that matter; this is why we never see guys like Barkley
or Reggie White or Isiah Thomas or Dusty Baker fined or suspended for making
offensive comments on the subject of race.

Another reason is that there is no watchdog organization for protecting against
the stereotyping of white people like the NAACP does for African Americans;
there is nobody on the white side of the fence like a Jesse Jackson or Al
Sharpton to cry "racism" at the drop of a hat and threaten boycotts and pickets
and protests and lawsuits until justice is served.

Like I said before, show me just one example of a minority athlete in a pro
sport being punished by the league management for making an offensive statement
about white people. When I see it happen just one time, I will no longer
believe there is a double standard against this sort of offensive speech in
professional sports.

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".

Mpoconnor7 · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 129

>The media over the years has created a few stars who didn't deserve
>the attention (Darryl Strawberry for one)

I have to disagree with this point. Strawberry (and this applies to his buddy
Dwight Gooden also) was a legitimately great player who would have been a first
ballot HOFer had he not gotten mixed up with drugs. He was probably a little
overrated by the New York media, as they tend to do at times, but he was a
great hitter when he was on top of his game although his defense did leave
something to be desired.

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".

Kurgan Gringioni · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 66

"Mpoconnor7" wrote in message@mb-m01.aol.com...
>
> And how about former Detroit Piston Isiah Thomas, who once made a comment
to a
> reporter that Larry Bird gets a lot of attention for being a great
basketball
> player simply because of his skin color; IIRC his exact comment was that
"if
> Larry Bird were black, he'd be just another NBA player". I don't seem to
> remember any fines levied on Thomas for that statement, but you can bet it
had
> something to do with his recent dismissal as Indiana Pacers coach when
Larry
> Bird suddenly became his boss.

So, what's the matter with that? Nothing. Isiah got what he deserved.

So did Rush.