fullbacks & halfbacks

Lee Harris · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

Does anyone know if the nomination changed, I always thought fullbacks were
behind the halfbacks
why is it the other way round

historically, the naming of the quarterback was because he was a quarter of
the way back from the offensive line, and I am assuming that this indicates
halfback should be halfway back to the full back who is all the way back.

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Archived from group: rec>sport>football>pro

Robert Goodman · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 35

"Lee Harris" wrote in message$4O4.1244364@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...

> Does anyone know if the nomination changed, I always thought fullbacks
were
> behind the halfbacks
> why is it the other way round

> historically, the naming of the quarterback was because he was a
quarter of
> the way back from the offensive line, and I am assuming that this
indicates
> halfback should be halfway back to the full back who is all the way
back.
> ---
We had a thread about this around 2 years ago here. At least, I think it
was here, though it might've been in rec.sport.football.misc.

Yes, the positions were originally named according to their actual
position. However, later they tended to reflect the characteristics of
players who played those positions.

I seem to be one of the very few who refer to the player who takes a
shotgun snap (unless there's someone behind hir) as "tailback", while
everyone else seems to call that player "quarterback", and originally
that position would've been "fullback" -- "tailback" having been coined
to create a position farther back than the fullback.

Still, it does seem funny to have the deep player in the I formation
referred to as "halfback" and the up back as "fullback", but that's a
result of evolution of the game. (I'm comfortable with "tailback" &
"fullback" in that formation.) In the early days a diamond T formation
was common, but later the T tended to flatten out, while the player in
the middle of the T-bar was still called "fullback". Fullbacks (now
called "safety" on defense) were originally light & swift, but came to
be heavy & powerful (playing a position now called "linebacker" on
defense). So the name attached to those characteristics, which fit the
blocking back in an I formation.

Robert

Robert Goodman · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 35

"Lee Harris" wrote in message$4O4.1386188@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...

> I knew I wasn't going mad thinking that fullback and halfback actually
meant
> something once upon a time
> ---
It goes back before North American football, to rugby. The backs were
also once known as "tends", as in goaltenders. AFAICT, the position
designation "quarterback" originated in Scottish rugby, though in later
rugby the position names of halfback, 3/4 back, and fullback came into
general use (displacing the Scottish nomenclature of 1/4,. 1/2, and
fullback which is today reflected in USAn & Canadian football). More
recently some have created a position midway between 1/2 & 3/4 back that
they call 5/8 back!

Robert

Lee Harris · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

"Robert Goodman" wrote in message$5fp18$2@ID-140940.news.dfncis.de...
> "Lee Harris" wrote in message
> $4O4.1244364@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
>
> > Does anyone know if the nomination changed, I always thought fullbacks
> were
> > behind the halfbacks
> > why is it the other way round
>
> > historically, the naming of the quarterback was because he was a
> quarter of
> > the way back from the offensive line, and I am assuming that this
> indicates
> > halfback should be halfway back to the full back who is all the way
> back.
> > ---
> We had a thread about this around 2 years ago here. At least, I think it
> was here, though it might've been in rec.sport.football.misc.
>
> Yes, the positions were originally named according to their actual
> position. However, later they tended to reflect the characteristics of
> players who played those positions.
>
> I seem to be one of the very few who refer to the player who takes a
> shotgun snap (unless there's someone behind hir) as "tailback", while
> everyone else seems to call that player "quarterback", and originally
> that position would've been "fullback" -- "tailback" having been coined
> to create a position farther back than the fullback.
>
> Still, it does seem funny to have the deep player in the I formation
> referred to as "halfback" and the up back as "fullback", but that's a
> result of evolution of the game. (I'm comfortable with "tailback" &
> "fullback" in that formation.) In the early days a diamond T formation
> was common, but later the T tended to flatten out, while the player in
> the middle of the T-bar was still called "fullback". Fullbacks (now
> called "safety" on defense) were originally light & swift, but came to
> be heavy & powerful (playing a position now called "linebacker" on
> defense). So the name attached to those characteristics, which fit the
> blocking back in an I formation.
>
> Robert
>
>

thanks, that was a great reply
I knew I wasn't going mad thinking that fullback and halfback actually meant
something once upon a time

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Robert Goodman · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 35

"NZDude" wrote in message$ied$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...

> I know almost nothing about Rugby Union, but I do know that they have
> positions called First 5/8ths (assumably there is also a Second
5/8ths)

Just a differentiation among positions that used to be inside & outside
center 3/4, leaving only the wings as 3/4 backs. Either that, or the
fly or stand-off half is now 1st 5/8.

Robert

NZDude · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 43

I know almost nothing about Rugby Union, but I do know that they have
positions called First 5/8ths (assumably there is also a Second 5/8ths)
NZD

"Robert Goodman" wrote in message$5k8kl$1@ID-140940.news.dfncis.de...
> "Lee Harris" wrote in message
> $4O4.1386188@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
>
> > I knew I wasn't going mad thinking that fullback and halfback actually
> meant
> > something once upon a time
> > ---
> It goes back before North American football, to rugby. The backs were
> also once known as "tends", as in goaltenders. AFAICT, the position
> designation "quarterback" originated in Scottish rugby, though in later
> rugby the position names of halfback, 3/4 back, and fullback came into
> general use (displacing the Scottish nomenclature of 1/4,. 1/2, and
> fullback which is today reflected in USAn & Canadian football). More
> recently some have created a position midway between 1/2 & 3/4 back that
> they call 5/8 back!
>
> Robert
>
>

NZDude · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 43

"Robert Goodman" wrote in message$5ui45$1@ID-140940.news.dfncis.de...
> "NZDude" wrote in message
> $ied$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> > I know almost nothing about Rugby Union, but I do know that they have
> > positions called First 5/8ths (assumably there is also a Second
> 5/8ths)
>
> Just a differentiation among positions that used to be inside & outside
> center 3/4, leaving only the wings as 3/4 backs. Either that, or the
> fly or stand-off half is now 1st 5/8.
>
> Robert
>
Ahhhhh. I knew there had to be a logical reason for the name.
NZD

Penn · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

"Lee Harris" wrote in message$4O4.1244364@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
> Does anyone know if the nomination changed, I always thought fullbacks
were
> behind the halfbacks
> why is it the other way round
>
> historically, the naming of the quarterback was because he was a quarter
of
> the way back from the offensive line, and I am assuming that this
indicates
> halfback should be halfway back to the full back who is all the way back.

Originally, The Quarterback was a still where the Quuarterback is, then a
Halfback followed by the Fullback. Then a formation now referred to as the
"Pro-Set" changed all that. In the "pro-set' the Halfback and Fullback lined
up beside each other. Now, the Fullback is usually the blocker for the
RunningBack and the term Halfback is rarely used. Teams list their players
as either a Fullback (FB) or a Runningback (RB) and there is no listing for
a Halfback. A Scatback in a small, quick running back but will still be
classified as a RB.

On Defense you have a "Nickle Defense" with 5 defensive backs (cornerbacks
and Safeties) instead of the normal 4 and a "Dime Defense" with 6 defensive
Backs instead of the normal 4. A standard 4-3 defense has 4 lineman, 3
linebackers and 4 defensive backs. A 3-4 standard defense like the
Pittsburgh Steeler use has 3 linemen, 4 linebacker and 4 defensive backs.

linemen play on the line
linebackers back them up
cornerback cover the recievers (out on the outside..'the corners')
Safeties play inside the cornersbacks and behind the linebackers and cover
any extra pass catchers sent out or act as a "safety" to stop a runner who
has burst through the linemen and linebackers. If more pass-catchers
(Tight-ends and backs) are sent than the safeties and cornerbacks can cover,
linebackers are forced into covering them and a mis-match is hoped for by
the offense (a fast pass-catching running back vs. a slower linerbacker...
this why you see the smaller Scatback come in on 3rd downs and passing plays
)

Usually, Safeties are slower and better tacklers than cornerback (Safeties
have to be able to cover recievers and tackle break-through runners).
Cornerbacks make more $$$ and are 'out on there own' more often. A safety
can rush over to help a Cornerback but a speedy reciever can go deep and
then it just him verse the fleet-footed and athletic cornerback. (Great old
cornerbacks, like Rod Woodson, are usually moved to Safety during the
twilight of their carreers because they still are good players but just
aren't fast enough any more to play Cornerback).

Penn · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

"Robert Goodman" wrote in message$5k8kl$1@ID-140940.news.dfncis.de...
> "Lee Harris" wrote in message
> $4O4.1386188@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net...
>
> > I knew I wasn't going mad thinking that fullback and halfback actually
> meant
> > something once upon a time
> > ---
> It goes back before North American football, to rugby. The backs were
> also once known as "tends", as in goaltenders. AFAICT, the position
> designation "quarterback" originated in Scottish rugby, though in later
> rugby the position names of halfback, 3/4 back, and fullback came into
> general use (displacing the Scottish nomenclature of 1/4,. 1/2, and
> fullback which is today reflected in USAn & Canadian football). More
> recently some have created a position midway between 1/2 & 3/4 back that
> they call 5/8 back!
>
> Robert

Interesting. ESPN use to show 'Austrailian Rules Football' (Rugby). That's
a rough game and it was easy to see the roots of North American Football.
Soccer (football to the rest of the world) is mild in comparison. I don't
think Soccer will ever catch on in the United States simply because we
already have a slow, low scoring, boring game..... we call it baseball.

I don't think Formula One Racing will ever catch on either.... there's not
enough passing and contact to interest Americans. Wider, more pass friendly
tracks is the only way.

Tarkus · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 167

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:36:44 GMT, Penn wrote:

> Interesting. ESPN use to show 'Austrailian Rules Football' (Rugby). That's
> a rough game and it was easy to see the roots of North American Football.
> Soccer (football to the rest of the world) is mild in comparison. I don't
> think Soccer will ever catch on in the United States simply because we
> already have a slow, low scoring, boring game..... we call it baseball.

Baseball is low scoring? Let me guess, you haven't watched it in many
years. There are far more "scores" in MLB than in the NFL. They just
don't assign multiple points for each one.
--
Hail to the Chiefs!

Now playing: the radio

Robert Goodman · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 35

"Penn" wrote in message%Ta.38837$8g6.1208191@news1.news.adelphia.net...

> Interesting. ESPN use to show 'Austrailian Rules Football' (Rugby).

Australian Rules is not rugby.

> That's
> a rough game and it was easy to see the roots of North American
Football.

Then you were probably watching rugby, not Aussie Rules. But if it was
FROM Australia, there's a high probability it was Rugby League rather
than Rugby Union.

Robert

Penn · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

>
> Baseball is low scoring? Let me guess, you haven't watched it in many
> years. There are far more "scores" in MLB than in the NFL. They just
> don't assign multiple points for each one.

I disagree with you there. In a 24 -21 football game there have been a total
of 13 'scores' (6 touchdowns, 6 point-after-kicks, and 1 feild goal). They
do that by playing for 60 minutes (play is timed). In baseball a 7-6 game
(13 scores) takes over 2 hours (play is not timed). It's a sloooow, low
scoring game... like soccer.

Penn · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

>
> Baseball is low scoring?

Baseball scores 7/21
Pirates 5, Astros 3
Marlins 4, Expos 1
Blue Jays 4 , Yankees 0
Orioles 3, Rangers 2
Devil Rays 3, Angels 2
Rockies 4, Dodgers 1
Mets 8, Phillies 6 (hey, they got over 13 scores in this one)
Reds 11, Brewers 2
Cubs 15, Braves 6 ( hey, 2 games are now over 13)
Padres 5, Cardinals 4
Gaints 5, D'Backs 4
Red Sox 14, Tigers 5 (up to 3 games)
White Sox 4, Indians 3
Athletics 6, Royals 1
Twins 5, Mariners 4

Now how many of those 'runs' came off of HomeRuns scoring multiple scores?
(like in Football)

Tarkus · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 167

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 01:02:23 GMT, Penn wrote:

> I disagree with you there. In a 24 -21 football game there have been a total
> of 13 'scores' (6 touchdowns, 6 point-after-kicks, and 1 feild goal). They
> do that by playing for 60 minutes (play is timed). In baseball a 7-6 game
> (13 scores) takes over 2 hours (play is not timed).

Regardless of whether or not they're timed, baseball games typically last
about as long as football games.

> It's a sloooow, low scoring game... like soccer.

That's so idiotic, it's difficult to even comment.
--
"He taught me a lot about playing running back. He taught me a lot
about mental toughness. He's not the biggest guy, but he goes after
people like he is. He's a headhunter."
- Ricky Williams on Priest Holmes

Now playing: the radio

Eric Fernandes · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

Tarkus wrote in message news:...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 01:36:44 GMT, Penn wrote:
>
> > Interesting. ESPN use to show 'Austrailian Rules Football' (Rugby). That's
> > a rough game and it was easy to see the roots of North American Football.
> > Soccer (football to the rest of the world) is mild in comparison. I don't
> > think Soccer will ever catch on in the United States simply because we
> > already have a slow, low scoring, boring game..... we call it baseball.
>
> Baseball is low scoring? Let me guess, you haven't watched it in many
> years. There are far more "scores" in MLB than in the NFL. They just
> don't assign multiple points for each one.

Baseball is nothing like football and soccer in action. In football
and soccer all players are in play every time the clocks ticks.
Baseball is minutes of watching the pitcher and batter for every few
seconds of watching the team. Miss a bit of soccer and you're lost.
Miss a bit of baseball and you miss a few balls and strikes.

Eric Fernandes

--------------------------
| Eric Fernandes |
| Aurora, Illinois |
| efernand@racemail.com |
--------------------------