Rush was right about McNabb and Media

Isaac · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 26

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:30:02 -0400, ROBW wrote:
> Well, first off, that doesn't negate the fact that the record was set, so I
> guess it just wasn't the defense.....eh?
>
> Johnson had a higher rating last week, but a funny thing happened.
> The Eagles won, the Bucs lost.
> I would suggest you ask Tampa Coach Gruden whether he would rather have a QB
> with stats, or a win.
>
> By the way, the writer also states an inaccuracy.
> He says that McNabb's rushing yards are negated by his sacks.
> That is incorrect.

He didn't actually say sacks affected his rushing stats. He was trying to say
McNabbs sacks were negatives that completely countered positives of his
rushing yardage. He's still wrong. I doubt that the number of times McNabb
gets sacked negate the positive of 7 additional rushing touchdowns.

Besides if sacks did come off of his rushing totals, that would mean that
McNabb is an even better runner than his rushing yardage indicates, which
would actually argue against the poster's point.

Isaac

Archived from group: rec>sport>football>pro

-bithead- · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:30:02 -0400, "ROBW"
wrote:

>Well, first off, that doesn't negate the fact that the record was set, so I
>guess it just wasn't the defense.....eh?

Oh, pelase. And to your mindlessness, ths equates to it all being
McNab.

>
> Johnson had a higher rating last week, but a funny thing happened.
>The Eagles won, the Bucs lost.

Yep.

And why?

Defense. You DID watch the game, right\?

ROBW · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

Yeah, both the Eagle and Buc defenses did not play well late.

Who won and who lost.

thanks,
rob

--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel

"-bithead-" wrote in message@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:30:02 -0400, "ROBW"
> wrote:
>
> >Well, first off, that doesn't negate the fact that the record was set, so
I
> >guess it just wasn't the defense.....eh?
>
> Oh, pelase. And to your mindlessness, ths equates to it all being
> McNab.
>
> >
> > Johnson had a higher rating last week, but a funny thing happened.
> >The Eagles won, the Bucs lost.
>
> Yep.
>
> And why?
>
> Defense. You DID watch the game, right\?
>

Jerry Donovan · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Jason Black" wrote in message$5bg$1@news.fsu.edu...
> Yet, ESPN reported last weekend that Donovan has had the BEST quarterback
> rating over the past 4 years - better than even Joe Montana, Elway and
> Marino during their first 4 years in the league.

Let's look at some numbers.
For those 4 mentioned QB's first 4 years in the NFL, here are their QB
ratings:

McNabb
60.1
77.8
84.3
86.0

Elway
54.9
76.8
70.2
79.0

Montana
81.1
87.8
88.4
88.0

Marino
96.0
108.9
84.1
92.5

McNabb beat Elway in their respective first four years, but not Montana,
and he is far from what Marino did. All of these QBs played different
amounts of their first year

> He is not overrated - he is the most threatening quarterback in the
> league, with the exception of maybe Vick. While he is not as fast and
> elusive as Vick, he is smarter and makes better decisions, and has been
> more consistent as a passer.

If ESPN reported what you posted, then it looks like they are continuing to
overrate him.

> You can't argue with the numbers. Everything else is just rhetoric.

That's true. No numbers = just rhetoric.

> Jason Black (black@cs.fsu.edu)
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Assistant Professor, CIS Department, Florida A&M University
> Phone: (850) 412-7354 http://www.cis.famu.edu/~jblack

Jerry Donovan

Jason Black · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

Yet, ESPN reported last weekend that Donovan has had the BEST quarterback
rating over the past 4 years - better than even Joe Montana, Elway and
Marino during their first 4 years in the league.

Keep in mind that Brad has played for 10 years while Donovan has played
only 4. If during the 4 years he has had a better rating than the afore
mentioned, what does THAT tell you?

He is not overrated - he is the most threatening quarterback in the
league, with the exception of maybe Vick. While he is not as fast and
elusive as Vick, he is smarter and makes better decisions, and has been
more consistent as a passer.

You can't argue with the numbers. Everything else is just rhetoric.

In article ,
eflorack wrote:
>"I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson one of the best
>quarterbacks in pro football—which is how McNabb is often referred to.
>In fact, I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson, on the
>evidence of his 10-year NFL career, much more than mediocre. Yet,
>Johnson's NFL career passer rating, as of last Sunday, is 7.3 points
>higher than McNabb's (84.8 to 77.5), he has completed his passes at a
>higher rate (61.8 percent to 56.4 percent), and has averaged
>significantly more yards per pass (6.84 to 5.91). McNabb excels in
>just one area, running, where he has gained 2,040 yards and scored 14
>touchdowns to Johnson's 467 and seven. But McNabb has also been sacked
>more frequently than Johnson—more than once, on average, per game,
>which negates much of the rushing advantage.
>
>
>In other words, in just about every way, Brad Johnson has been a more
>effective quarterback than McNabb and over a longer period. "
>
>Those excellent points aside, perhaps the biggest point, in all of
>this....In a leauge where teams are punished for hiring coaches of the
>wrong color, how can we argue that over-protecting someone of a
>particular race isn't happening?
>
>
>
>
>Posted by: 10/6/2003 10:41:56 AM

--
Jason Black (black@cs.fsu.edu)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assistant Professor, CIS Department, Florida A&M University
Phone: (850) 412-7354 http://www.cis.famu.edu/~jblack

ROBW · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

It's about wins.

robw

--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel

"Jerry Donovan" wrote in message$1@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
> "Jason Black" wrote in message
> $5bg$1@news.fsu.edu...
> > Yet, ESPN reported last weekend that Donovan has had the BEST
quarterback
> > rating over the past 4 years - better than even Joe Montana, Elway and
> > Marino during their first 4 years in the league.
>
> Let's look at some numbers.
> For those 4 mentioned QB's first 4 years in the NFL, here are their QB
> ratings:
>
> McNabb
> 60.1
> 77.8
> 84.3
> 86.0
>
> Elway
> 54.9
> 76.8
> 70.2
> 79.0
>
> Montana
> 81.1
> 87.8
> 88.4
> 88.0
>
> Marino
> 96.0
> 108.9
> 84.1
> 92.5
>
> McNabb beat Elway in their respective first four years, but not Montana,
> and he is far from what Marino did. All of these QBs played different
> amounts of their first year
>
> > He is not overrated - he is the most threatening quarterback in the
> > league, with the exception of maybe Vick. While he is not as fast and
> > elusive as Vick, he is smarter and makes better decisions, and has been
> > more consistent as a passer.
>
> If ESPN reported what you posted, then it looks like they are continuing
to
> overrate him.
>
> > You can't argue with the numbers. Everything else is just rhetoric.
>
> That's true. No numbers = just rhetoric.
>
> > Jason Black (black@cs.fsu.edu)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Assistant Professor, CIS Department, Florida A&M University
> > Phone: (850) 412-7354 http://www.cis.famu.edu/~jblack
>
> Jerry Donovan
>
>

eflorack · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

black@diablo.cs.fsu.edu (Jason Black) wrote in message news:...
> Yet, ESPN reported last weekend that Donovan has had the BEST quarterback
> rating over the past 4 years - better than even Joe Montana, Elway and
> Marino during their first 4 years in the league.

I saw that, and thought at the time they were trying to bend the stats
to make nice with their black viewers. I have to wonder how they came
to that conclusion; they never really went intot he specifics of the
numbers they used to draw that conclusion.

>
> You can't argue with the numbers.

Correct; and here they are:

> >"I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson one of the best
> >quarterbacks in pro football?which is how McNabb is often referred to.
> >In fact, I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson, on the
> >evidence of his 10-year NFL career, much more than mediocre. Yet,
> >Johnson's NFL career passer rating, as of last Sunday, is 7.3 points
> >higher than McNabb's (84.8 to 77.5), he has completed his passes at a
> >higher rate (61.8 percent to 56.4 percent), and has averaged
> >significantly more yards per pass (6.84 to 5.91). McNabb excels in
> >just one area, running, where he has gained 2,040 yards and scored 14
> >touchdowns to Johnson's 467 and seven. But McNabb has also been sacked
> >more frequently than Johnson?more than once, on average, per game,
> >which negates much of the rushing advantage.
> >
> >
> >In other words, in just about every way, Brad Johnson has been a more
> >effective quarterback than McNabb and over a longer period. "
> >

ROBW · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

Are you familiar with the quarterback rating system?

robw

--
"Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel

"eflorack" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
> black@diablo.cs.fsu.edu (Jason Black) wrote in message
news:...
> > Yet, ESPN reported last weekend that Donovan has had the BEST
quarterback
> > rating over the past 4 years - better than even Joe Montana, Elway and
> > Marino during their first 4 years in the league.
>
> I saw that, and thought at the time they were trying to bend the stats
> to make nice with their black viewers. I have to wonder how they came
> to that conclusion; they never really went intot he specifics of the
> numbers they used to draw that conclusion.
>
> >
> > You can't argue with the numbers.
>
> Correct; and here they are:
>
> > >"I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson one of the best
> > >quarterbacks in pro football?which is how McNabb is often referred to.
> > >In fact, I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson, on the
> > >evidence of his 10-year NFL career, much more than mediocre. Yet,
> > >Johnson's NFL career passer rating, as of last Sunday, is 7.3 points
> > >higher than McNabb's (84.8 to 77.5), he has completed his passes at a
> > >higher rate (61.8 percent to 56.4 percent), and has averaged
> > >significantly more yards per pass (6.84 to 5.91). McNabb excels in
> > >just one area, running, where he has gained 2,040 yards and scored 14
> > >touchdowns to Johnson's 467 and seven. But McNabb has also been sacked
> > >more frequently than Johnson?more than once, on average, per game,
> > >which negates much of the rushing advantage.
> > >
> > >
> > >In other words, in just about every way, Brad Johnson has been a more
> > >effective quarterback than McNabb and over a longer period. "
> > >

eflorack · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

"ROBW" wrote in message news:...
> Are you familiar with the quarterback rating system?

Yep.

Heavyarms · Joined: 06 Aug 2007 Posts: 115

"ROBW" wrote in message@comcast.com...
> Are you familiar with the quarterback rating system?
>

A quick search of the NFL stat page, only three of the top ten rated passers
are actually QBs, and they're all backups, for what that's worth.

1. Ladanian Tomlinson, RB
2. Tod Bouman, QB
3. Gus Frerote, QB
4. LaBrandon Toefield, RB
5. Drew Bennet, WR
6. Craig Hentrich, P
7. Rod Smith, WR
8. Aveion Carson, RB
9. Doug Pederson , QB
10. Az-Zahir Hakim, WR

> robw
>
> --
> "Sing while you may" Edward Ka-Spel
>
>
> "eflorack" wrote in message
> @posting.google.com...
> > black@diablo.cs.fsu.edu (Jason Black) wrote in message
> news:...
> > > Yet, ESPN reported last weekend that Donovan has had the BEST
> quarterback
> > > rating over the past 4 years - better than even Joe Montana, Elway and
> > > Marino during their first 4 years in the league.
> >
> > I saw that, and thought at the time they were trying to bend the stats
> > to make nice with their black viewers. I have to wonder how they came
> > to that conclusion; they never really went intot he specifics of the
> > numbers they used to draw that conclusion.
> >
> > >
> > > You can't argue with the numbers.
> >
> > Correct; and here they are:
> >
> > > >"I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson one of the best
> > > >quarterbacks in pro football?which is how McNabb is often referred
to.
> > > >In fact, I don't know anyone who would call Brad Johnson, on the
> > > >evidence of his 10-year NFL career, much more than mediocre. Yet,
> > > >Johnson's NFL career passer rating, as of last Sunday, is 7.3 points
> > > >higher than McNabb's (84.8 to 77.5), he has completed his passes at a
> > > >higher rate (61.8 percent to 56.4 percent), and has averaged
> > > >significantly more yards per pass (6.84 to 5.91). McNabb excels in
> > > >just one area, running, where he has gained 2,040 yards and scored 14
> > > >touchdowns to Johnson's 467 and seven. But McNabb has also been
sacked
> > > >more frequently than Johnson?more than once, on average, per game,
> > > >which negates much of the rushing advantage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >In other words, in just about every way, Brad Johnson has been a more
> > > >effective quarterback than McNabb and over a longer period. "
> > > >
>
>